Thursday, March 25, 2010

The Plot Thickens: Two Normas, Maciel, Consecrated and Quirce and de Andres

En Familia

EN FAMILIA. El padre Marcial Maciel con su supuesta hija Norma Hilda Rivas Baños (blanco) y la mamá de ésta, Norma Baños (azul).
Fr. Marcial Maciel with his supposed daughter, Norma Hilda Rivas Baaos (in white) and her mother, Norma Baños (in blue) [with consecrated women]
Note the date on the photo - 3/5/2005.

La cosecha de imágenes, nunca se acaba. Ahora mi Cisen se aplicó como nunca y me mandó un par de fotitos que, estoy seguro, van a hacer fruncir el seño de muchos.

The harvest of photos never ends. Now my "spy" worked like never before and sent me a pair of pics which, I am sure, are going to make lots of people cringe.

En la primera imagen –que mi contacto me autorizó reproducir ya que tiene los derechos– supuestamente aparece el padre Marcial Maciel, en el 2005, con su presunta hija Norma Hilda Rivas Baños, la cual está junto a él vestida completamente de blanco. No olvidemos que Normita salió físicamente a la luz pública por primera vez, con otras fotos, en la portada de la revista Quién del pasado 19 de marzo. En esta nueva entrega se distingue mucho mejor su cara que, vale la pena mencionar, no es na-da fe-a.

In the first picture -which my contact has authorized me to publish and has all of the rights to do so- supposedly Marcial Maciel appears, in 2005, with his presumed daughter, Norma Hilda Rivas Baños, who is next to him dressed totally in white. Let's not forget that Norma Hilda first appeared on the scene, in other photos, on the cover of Quién magazine on March 19. In this new photo, her face is seen much better, and, it is worth noting that she is certainly not ugly.

Aunque nunca los habíamos visto juntos, ya conocíamos a Maciel y a su tentativa hija. Así que la verdadera nota es la mujer morena, de pelo negro largo, vestida de traje azul que se localiza en la extrema derecha. Según mi fuente es nada más y nada menos que Norma Baños, la mujer que se dice que el padre Marcial Maciel conoció en la década de los 70 en Acapulco –donde ella vivía y trabajaba como mesera–, y con la que presuntamente el fundador de los Legionarios de Cristo procreó a Norma Hilda. Ufffff.

Even though we have never seen them together before, we now meet Maciel and his supposed daughter. Also there is the darker woman, with black hair, dressed in blue and at the extreme right of the photo. According to my source, this is none other than Norma Banos, the woman who Maciel is said to have met in the 70s in Acapulco - where she lived and worked as a waitress 0, and with whom the founder of the Legion of Chirst conceived Norma Hilda. Uffff.

A decir del integrante de mi Cisen, el resto de las mujeres que aparecen en la foto son Consagradas. Todos estaban en Cotija, Michoacán, en una de las casas de retiro que tienen los Legionarios.

My "spy" tells me that the rest of the women in the photo are consecrated in the Regnum Christi. All are in Cotija, Michoacán, in one of the Legionaries' retreat houses.

En la segunda imagen aparecen los personajes antes mencionados con el adicional de los padres Legionarios de Cristo: Jesús Quirce Andrés, rector de la Universidad Anáhuac (junto al padre Maciel) y Marcelino de Andrés (al fondo del lado derecho), hoy asistente del apostolado en España.

In the second photo, we find the same people with the addition of the following priests of the Legion of Christ: Jesús Quirce Andrés, rector of the Anahuác University (next to Fr. Maciel) and Marcelino de Andrés (in the back on the right), currently the assistant for the apostolate in Spain.

Después de ver estas imágenes hay una parte que no me cuadra. El 13 de septiembre de 2009 la periodista española Idoia Sota publicó en El Mundo una entrevista con Norma Baños en la que la supuesta mujer de Maciel dijo: “Yo nunca habría elegido este camino para mi vida…Ni mi hija ni yo supimos quién era realmente (el padre Maciel) hasta el final”. ¿Entonces qué hacía Norma con Maciel en una de las casas de retiro de los Legionarios, donde todo mundo sabía que él era el fundador de la Legión de Cristo?

After seeing these images there is something that does not make sense. On September 13, 2009, the Spanish journalist Idoia Sota published an interview with Norma Baños in El Mundo in which the supposed wife of Maciel said: "I never would have chosen this path for my life... neither my daughter nor I knew who he really was (Fr. Maciel) until the end." So, what is Norma doing with Maciel in a Legion retreat house, where everybody knows that he was the founder of the Legion of Christ?

EN COTIJA. El padre Jesús Quirce, el padre Maciel, varias Consagradas y atrás a la derecha el padre Marcelino de Andrés.

Fr. Jesús Quirce, Fr. Maciel, various Consecrated, and in the back at right, Fr. Marcelino de Andrés.

Note the date on the photo - 3/5/2005.

Above: Cover of Quién Magazin from Mexico, March 19th, 2010.


The lady in yellow, Paulina Garza, is Luis Garza Medina's sister.

Maciel seems not to mind that his daughter's dress does not meet the standards of Pure Fashion.


Anonymous said...

I am speechless...

Jeannette said...

Wait, you mean they LIED about what they knew?? I gotta sit down to take that in.

Anonymous said...

SOOO many questions. The girl in the white is actually preety, the suppossed wife -- come on if you are going to live a double life at least do it with a hottie, not a large woman who wears light bule suits! Anyway -- is it possible the 3GF's and even the priests thought these women were friends, family, benefactors, etc.. of Maciel? He was such a good lier why couldn't he pull that off. I just find it hard to believe that these 4 older consecrated women all accepted the fact that Maciel was getting some on the side, was married and had a girl. One of them if not would for sure would have spoke up and done something. I believe Norma knew and Maciel prepared them with more lies when they would meet 3G's Trust me I'm not drinking Kool-aid I just can't get my simple mind around the fact that no one would talk if they knew the truth!

Anonymous said...

Norma least knew a bit of it.

bigtex said...

What year was norma born? If she was born in 1990 this could have been a quinceranea party.

Anonymous said...

Methinks Norma knew as well.

If you remember, the Mexican sons of mm went to visit Norma and Normita, but there is no indication Normita ever went to visit the Mexican brothers and their mother. It just doesn't seem that the Mexican mistress (Lara?) stood on an equal footing with Norma. This also explains why Norma was at mm's deathbed, not Lara.

(of course even mm had to eventually pick one. I mean, it's not like he could have had 2 or 3 mistresses and families at his bedside, right?)

Recovering from RC said...

Anon at 9:56, at least you said it yourself that you have a "simple mind." How else to explain such a ridiculous comment about Norma Hilda not being a "hottie"?? Then there is your added zinger referring to MM "getting some on the side." Very offensive. You manage to reduce a serious discussion of MM's scandalous, criminal behavior to some sort of locker room banter. Please man up, friend, and show a little more gravitas!

Anonymous said...

- Maybe MM converted to Mormonism??? Who knows? LOL

- MM always liked the good looking ones. Hopefully his daughter was spared the abuse.

Anonymous said...

Recovering from RC -- settle down! There was nothing offensive! Yes it is serious but this stuff happens everyday all day across America. Am I supposed to walk around beating my chest in sorrow? MM is a loser and anyone who knew needs to go. I was in the LC for 10 long years. I was MM's personal little waiter when he came to Chesire, I interacted with him greatly along with the whiskey drinkin John Devlin, I was a Superior for 5 years, trust me I know the gravity, don't you dare preach to me!!!

Recovering from RC said...

Dear Anonymous, I'm not sure how you make the leap that your LC experience justifies comments that belittle women and trivialize sexual sin. You've certainly fallen far from the appearance of being gentlemanly that you no doubt maintained during your Legionary days. It doesn't help the cause when an ex-lc talks like some kind of juvenile, porn-lovin' misogynist. Can you hear me now?

Anonymous said...

Recovering -- I will not play the game. No I can't hear you. As being gentlemanly you pulled my comments out and then stood them alone thus making them appear vulgar. Since when is the word hottie pornographic. I'm married to the most beautiful, spiritual hottie this world has ever seen. I respect and admire everything about her. Regarding this comment "I just find it hard to believe that these 4 older consecrated women all accepted the fact that Maciel was getting some on the side, was married and had a girl." Sorry my man but in that context I'm not seeing how that is pornographic, or belittling! Recovering -- is there something about you that you are not telling us? This will be my last comment on this thread. Have a great day, grab a good beer and enjoy some college hoops tonight! That is for sure what me and the fam will be doing. Live a little!!!!

Nothing To See Here said...

Anon - Interesting that you assumed that Recovering is a man. It sounds to me that this a woman, who assumes that men ought to be just like her... possibly a little repressed with just a touch of puritanism.

Anonymous said...

Ummm, mm WAS getting a little on the side...on the side of being a priest? It made sense to me, and I'm a very Catholic woman...

The word "hottie" doesn't really bug me either, in fact, my girlfrineds and I often tell each other "you look like such a hottie today!". It would never occur to me to feel offended.

Maybe its a regional difference?

Recovering from RC said...

Anonymous, you can argue that individual terms aren't pornographic, but I believe that the pornographication of our society is what allows you to brazenly refer to MM's sacriligious sexual relationships as "getting some" and to sarcastically judge his choice of victims based on their "hotness." Seriously, would you size up any of his male victims in such a way? Would you say, "Gee, as long as MM was going to commit anal rape, he could have at least chosen some better lookin' boys?"

Of course you wouldn't. Your lack of respect for women comes through loud and clear. And yes, being a woman, I have the radar to pick up on it. Others may give you a pass on your base talk, but our Church's great teachings on the dignity of women stand in opposition to you. Enjoy your hoops. And LOVE a little.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I love it when my husband calls me a hottie, and he so totally not a porn-lovin' misogynist that it makes me laugh to think of him as ever being described as such simply by virtue of calling me, his beloved wife and mother of his six children, a hottie. He loves my mind, my soul, and yes, my body---and I love that he does.

As for MM, he was getting some on the side and THEN some (more). To be honest, I consider the term "getting some on the side" as being rather euphemistic and tending toward making the conversation PG-rated, whereas describing what he actually did---forcing little boys to masturbate him to orgasm, placing his penis into little boys' anuses, taking same penis and placing it into many different vaginas all over the world---is more like the real-life R to XXX-rated life dear ole Nuestro Padre actually lived. And yes, I think it is important to consider the details of what this man did to others rather than vaguely describing his actions as
"conduct inconsistent with the life of the priesthood", etc. I believe in acknowledging the horrors so that the light can finally reach all the dark corners.

We are all grown-ups here; I think we should be able to handle the tongue-in-cheek expressions of others without feeling the need to chastise. To suggest those of us here regard this matter as anything other than deadly serious (unlike the LC/RC minions who keep blithely trying to ignore and pretend all is well in their Land Of Legion Make-Believe) is insulting.

Humor is one way that many of us can handle the horrifying things that have happened through the Legion of Maciel. Sorry if you find that offensive, but it is what it is.

Recovering from RC said...

A point of clarification to my sisters: this is not about calling someone a "hottie" as a compliment. Anonymous actually referred to Norma as a "large woman" who, in his estimation, is not a "hottie." He intimated that MM should have done better as long as he was living a double life.

Seriously people, such rude talk cannot be justified as "euphemism;" it is sexist and demeaning to the victims involved. Tragic that you find it to be "humor."

Anonymous said...

I'm afraid I have to agree with the comments critical of Recovering's remarks. They do seem just a bit pinched and overly serious. There's gravitas and then there's puritanism. The later is foreign to the Catholic mind ("Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine there's plenty of laughter and good red wine. At least I've always heard it's so, benedicamus Domino!" Hilair Belloc) I thought the use of the expression "getting some on the side" was an appropriately sassy euphemism. And please, let's not fall into some tiresome PC "lookism". Comments on the perceived attractiveness of one or another of NP's paramours is not out of place, so long as charity is maintained. As for teenage and younger male victims, one might indeed wonder why a homely youth was chosen. That hansome boys are desirable to pederasts and pedophiles is presumed. I wonder whether everyone just needs to relax and perhaps enjoy a glass of good red wine.

Anonymous said...

Is a large woman who wears a very unattractive light blue suit a hottie? I think not. Seeing that I have been forced to watch numerous "What not to Wear" shows with my fantastically hot wife I'm sure I could give some great pointers and turn the not hot into VERY HOT. Speaking of not hot on a serious note -- Why did MM require all 3GF's to wear short hair? Some women look great in short hair while other don't. Any guesses on where he came up with such an idea?

Jeannette said...

I tend to agree with the anonymii over "recovering" but I think the 8:10 anonymous' accurate description is powerful. So, I'll be sure and describe Father Marcial Maciel's anal and oral rape of 7-to-11-year-old boys, including his own son, more accurately from here on out and not use euphemisms. Recovering, would it be okay to refer to his concubine's son as his "stepson"?

Anonymous said...

As it is fairly well known that the ugly and the fat need not apply when it comes to LC/RC, I find it not off-topic for somebody to question the unfashionable and overweight appearance of the woman that Maciel took to bed as a lover for decades.

Also, I don't think hotness is so much about the unchangeable physical attributes a person is born with (I would find it uncharitable to criticize a person for something they can hardly help---and for something so superficial as physical appearances), but about the way a person presents him or herself. Even the most homely person can make themselves more attractive by dressing with taste and decorum.

I took the flippant comment about Maciel's choice in lovers of a woman who would choose to dress in a big blue suit that certainly does not appear to accentuate her positives in any way as not off-topic at all. It certainly does seem ironic that a man who designed an entire order of men to meet his particular sexual tastes would have as one of his mistresses a woman who (at least from this photo---truly, perhaps she was just having a very bad What Not To Wear kind of day) appears not to be able to put her best fashion foot forward.

And yes, I DO find it kind of humorous, in a sick/twisted kind of way. And many of us find we have to have a sick/twisted sense of humor at times in order to be able to tolerate month after month, year after year, the horrors inflicted by this man and his order of priests.

Again, if you find that offensive, so be it. We can agree to disagree.

I also find it ironic that Maciel's daughter's outfit is hardly Pure Fashion material, but I suppose if he had been having sex with her for years (which we don't know for sure, do we? I know there have been rumors circulating about his sons accusing him of molesting them), it's likely not something he hasn't seen before.

Anonymous said...

Photo Caption Contest:

"Look Marcial, naked young boys to your right!"

Anonymous said...

I can easily imagine that Norma-in-the-blue-suit would have been thinner and quite attractive 18 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Recovering, I've been reading your posts for a long time and will say in all charity, that you flipped out this time. Perhaps you had a personal experience that makes you touchy, but Anonymous's comments weren't worth all this hype and detraction from the real mission of shutting the legion down.

SO DONE said...

I have to comment on this and defend Norma. I believe she is, while not stunning, she is not ugly. She is overweight, but seems to carry it well. Maybe the overall blue color of her suit wasn't the best choice, but I can imagine her looking quite nice in say a black suit with a crisp white shirt. She has beautiful cheek bones, and her daughter looks as if she's good looking as well.

All this might seem quite trivial, but for those of us who recruited "leaders" (ie, the rich, powerful and beautiful), we would think that MM would choose a beautiful woman for himself.

But one must remember two things: First, MM was from another culture and another generation where what was considered beautiful is quite different than in 2010 in the US.

Also, MM couldn't marry some aspiring model or woman from wealth or privilege for the simple fact that he needed them to fade into the background. He also needed them to have no other option than to depend on him ... so he married women that were very poor and had no other opportunities.

Also, in the first picture doesn't it look as if Norma Hilda is holding MM's hand, or at least touching his arm? I think that for a 3gf or a LC that would definitely send some red flags. I mean, MM was a priest and founder of an order, why would a little girl be so affectionate or close to him?

They could have lied and introduced Norma as his sister, and Norma Hilda as a niece, but living in Cotija I'd think they would already know the whole Maciel family.

Such a mystery...

Anonymous said...

"Hopefully his daughter was spared the abuse."

Unlikely. According to statistics, child molesters never pass up the opportunity to molest. And they never reach an age where they stop molesting.

But still, I hope for this girl.

Anonymous said...

So Done.... you are giving MM way to much credit. Come on the guy was not attractive and extremely odd. Do you think he could pick up a super model? My Dad cheated on my Mom 20 years ago with some extremely fat unattractive chick he enede up marrying. People never upgrade when they cheat, they usually cheat with someone who is more permiscuous than the one they are with or they simply lie well. In MM's case he simply could score a super model.

Anonymous said...

Xlc here

nothing shocks me at this point......

One has to wonder why mm had these families so late in life? Are there more kids from earler on that don't know about? Clearly these photos show that mm wasn't two personalities as here both the founder and predator are one. Did mm beieve himself so special that the commandments didn't apply to him?

The Church does share some of the blame for being so slow to investigate the abuse allegations around mm. Clearly he should have been defrocked, clearly he had help on the inside! And yet the Church was afraid to scandalize us by defrocking mm all because the legion was so strong and yet is not the truth even more scandalous?

Folks this isn't the great chastizment but rather the sins of the past comming home to roost! I think we need a special Holy Year of attonement just for the clergy followed by one dedicated to healing the victims!

Venga Tu Reino!

Anonymous said...

I've always wondered if perhaps he didn't start his families later in life because he realized heat was starting to be applied to molesters of seminarians and decided to produce his own set of children to molest.

You don't hear of many accusations of seminarian abuse by Maciel after the Great Blessing (yes, I choked on that one). He might have wizened up and realized he needed to go elsewhere for a supply of young flesh to sodomize. I would imagine those large sums of money he took with him on trips probably paid for the flesh of young children that parents in poor countries might gladly prostitute out to him for a bit of cash. Same children and parents would never speak against this man, especially if they didn't even know who the heck he was.

Producing his own young to sodomize and rape may just have been an idea that came to him when he had already started to realize other supplies of flesh came at too high a price.

Just my .02. Then again, perhaps there were all sorts of other children and women starting way back at the beginning, and we just don't know about it because the information highway was in such infancy back then.

Anonymous said...

Yea, large sums of money on his trips to Tailand...

Anonymous said...

Just a correction to your picture ID of Paulina Garza that is not her. Sorry! I was 3gf for 8 yrs and so I can ID her, that is another 3gf who has been in for many yrs.