"But cases of pedophilia exorcised, no. ... Pedophiles are not possessed by the devil, they are tempted by the devil," he said.
"They don't need exorcism, they need to be converted, to be converted to God, that's what they need. They need to confess, they need true penitence, true repentance, that's what they need. They're not possessed."
There is no sign at all that Maciel was repentant. We cannot judge, but we need to look at the signs. If there were signs that he was repentant, we could hang our hat on them. Bottom line: no demonic possession, just plain horrid sin.
14 comments:
Judas Iscariot was at the end possessed, but by a perfect possession that did not allow for a normal human being to discern it at sight. The signs of speaking unknown tongues, being subject to "religious provocation", etc., often do not hold for the perfectly possessed. They can be unbelievably evil and yet not manifest this in contexts that are not convenient for their purposes. Nonchalant blasphemy and sacrilege, especially when joined to sins of the flesh, signal the perfectly possessed. MM was therefore almost certainly perfectly possessed. Some superiors among the LCs may likewise be possessed. This has nothing to do with personal culpability or mental pathologies: these can be present or absent in the person.
These observations matter. Look at the pandemic of pedophilia striking the Catholic Church and society at large. To overcome the problem you have to KNOW the CAUSES. The cause is not simply that of human agency, but the diabolical. If the Church does not recognize that we are under a two-prong attack, and continues to ignore the diabolical causality even while correctly pointing out the human causalities, this problem will not be rooted out but aggravated.
This is my firm conviction. I base my opinion on S.R.A. (cf "Satanic Ritual Abuse") and related literature on the subject. In Scripture there is Romans 1 in which Paul attributes widespread immorality first to abandonment of Faith in God, which leads God to turn mankind over to immorality and the demonic. The parallels are striking between then and now. And as the "smoke of Satan has penetrated the sanctuary" (Pope Paul VI), the parallels are realized within the official Church itself.
To show that I am not (entirely) crazy, here are some pertinent references. Malachi Martin, "Hostage to the Devil". Another old book, out of print, "Michelle Remembers". I do not disregard the testimony of some Protestant Christians who have experience with the matter of deliverance... Internet searches on these subjects and S.R.A. will lead to other sources. The problem the LCs and the Church are undergoing unfortunately is not isolated.
Again, I am not trying to instigate a "witch hunt". The Church, if She has Faith in her own self, can handily deal with these problems... but only if her ministers believe! In this, I agree with P. Amorth.
Occam's razor - he was just a selfish asshole. Period. We don't need to use the devil to explain a life of self-centered behavior, establishing structures for the purpose of indulging oneself. Why can't the simplest explanation be the right one, that he chose to build the city of self-love, at war with the city of the love of God?
All the rest of the "Demonic possession" or "mental illness" crutches are laughable. It's so simple - he liked to indulge himself!
He was a creepy dickhead who skillfully started off with the right people who would give the veneer of holiness and lie to other people. They took advantage of circumstances to smear those who early on tried to tell the truth about him. No one believed them because we chose orthodoxy over holiness, surrendered our judgment to others out of "obedience".
No. A con job of this magnitude is not pulled of so simply. This fooling of popes and prelates and faithful, many of them Legionaries, for over 50 years is not so easily explained by calling MM a "dickhead".
Perhaps you too are being influenced by the demonic? The demonic blinds, and provokes our passions. Furthermore, the demons are spread in community life not just through sexual relations, but (among other means) through the the "sign of peace" given at the mass. And to think that we have all participated in sacrilegious masses with "NP"! In fact, the demons have an implicit permission to influence when they are passed along in the context of the mass. The sign of peace, supposed to symbolize the passing of grace from the Altar and Christ to those congregated, can become a means of general demonic infestation. I believe this has happened, for it explains why so many of us were mentally blocked from putting one and one together to realize what was happening for so long, and furthermore, I have come across a disturbing number of exLCs who no longer can even believe in God. They may attribute this to MM and to their anger against God, but in addition and underlying these causes, is the demonic, the spirit of anti-faith.
No, I am almost certainly right. The demonic is lose and laughing in your face. There is need -- not for an exorcism-- but for a deliverance and purification from the demonic for all LCs and exLCs and possibly RC members. This implies a personal acknowledgment of all sins related to MM and our covering them up for whatever reason. Then a verbal command against possible influencing evil spirits to depart at once in the Name of Jesus Christ. Then a renewal of baptismal vows and reconsecration to the TRUE Kingdom of Jesus Christ. This will expel and close the door to the demonic in each of our lives. You see: it's very easy, but this "rite", that can be done alone and in private, is a radical and effective step toward peace in Christ which we should all have, freedom from evil influences of which we are too often not aware.
But do we have the Faith to believe this? Do the ministers of the Church have the Faith? I have experience with demonic deliverance and am confident about what I am writing. How right Baudelair (spelling?) was when he said that the Devil's most astute ruse has been to convince men that he does not exist or influence in their daily lives.
Anonymous, where are you getting this "perfect possession" doctrine besides statements by Malichai Martin?
Anon 1 & 3. A bit much. MM was a con man and cult leader who found his path through the Church since that was what was around as he grew up. Con men take what is around them and manipulate it.... there are many examples. If MM had relatives in investment banking there is no doubt he would have been a Madoff instead.
Do we need to repudiate evil? Yes. MM took on an evilness in leading people to their destruction but to spout that he was "perfectly possessed" and that demons were being passed on through the sign of peace is false. MM used many cult tactics and leveraged religious obedience to further his goals. Lack of sleep, hurry up and wait, etc. clouds ones thinking skills and prevents the mind from getting its needed rest. Like any effective cult, once people leave and are "deprogramed" they come to realize what they failed to see and usually reject all that it was about...sadly, that will mean organized religion for many as they put their entire trust (lives, soul, money, etc.) in it and were crushed. The Church has much healing to do with these people.
I for one, do think there was demonic influences of some degree since he perverted the Church, but perfectly possessed? I think not. Making analogies with "perfectly possessed" saints....I really think not. I agree with the devil temps in this case but it is MM's own making. MM was a good seducer...and mixed good and evil together so well that people would eat it up thinking it was all good.
- THE_Br._Dan
There are material causalities, and about these, I think we can all agree in the case of Maciel: he was a con man.
What is perfect possession? St John of the Cross wrote somewhere of it. A saint or a demoniac can be "perfectly possessed", one by the Spirit of God, the other by the devil. This "perfect" possession does not suppress the freedom of the individual but perfects it either in good or in evil. I am sorry I do not have the citation of St John of the Cross. This type of possession has this effect: that the person so possessed can be "inspired" so that his actions are born spontaneously from the possessing spirit. In the Catechism, there are the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" that perfect the infused virtues: the human person -- without violence to his freedom or person -- acts as one with the movements of the Holy Spirit that guides him. Likewise, in perfect possession, the demoniac and the demon act as one. In "normal" possession cases, the person acts violently, especially if provoked with religious objects or words. But the perfectly possessed do not react violently or lose consciousness, but can commit "perfect sacrilege", such as celebrate "devout" masses, such as MM did.
Another matter is that of demonic influence. I have seen that there are 3 degrees of this. 1) That of normal temptation, 2) that of "internal influence" marked by obsessive thoughts that are persistent, and 3) that which actually takes away control of the body from the human person. In this 3rd degree there are two types, imperfect and perfect. In perfect possession, the will of possessed and possessing spirit align. I don't know, but I believe that the person no longer loses consciousness but is fully aware. However, if he struggles to free himself, then he is subject to extreme pain and mental blocking, so that he cannot free himself.
All liberations require that the possessed WANT to be freed and convert back to Jesus Christ. In the case of perfect possession, IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE DELIVERED, but the person must be willing to die even to acheive this freedom. And God, because He is so Good, does indeed free these people.
I have some knowledge of satanists and witches who have the misfortune to give themselves to such evils. I have had to learn these things. I have come across blogs in which they discuss how most effectively to cast curses on others... Witches advertise gatherings on certain websites. I don't advise you visit these! Yes, curses can be communicated through internet, not just crystal balls or mirrors...
I know it sounds crazy, but it is real. You might as well hear it hear first.
God bless...
There are material causalities, and about these, I think we can all agree in the case of Maciel: he was a con man.
What is perfect possession? St John of the Cross wrote somewhere of it. A saint or a demoniac can be "perfectly possessed", one by the Spirit of God, the other by the devil. This "perfect" possession does not suppress the freedom of the individual but perfects it either in good or in evil. I am sorry I do not have the citation of St John of the Cross. This type of possession has this effect: that the person so possessed can be "inspired" so that his actions are born spontaneously from the possessing spirit. In the Catechism, there are the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" that perfect the infused virtues: the human person -- without violence to his freedom or person -- acts as one with the movements of the Holy Spirit that guides him. Likewise, in perfect possession, the demoniac and the demon act as one. In "normal" possession cases, the person acts violently, especially if provoked with religious objects or words. But the perfectly possessed do not react violently or lose consciousness, but can commit "perfect sacrilege", such as celebrate "devout" masses, such as MM did.
Another matter is that of demonic influence. I have seen that there are 3 degrees of this. 1) That of normal temptation, 2) that of "internal influence" marked by obsessive thoughts that are persistent, and 3) that which actually takes away control of the body from the human person. In this 3rd degree there are two types, imperfect and perfect. In perfect possession, the will of possessed and possessing spirit align. I don't know, but I believe that the person no longer loses consciousness but is fully aware. However, if he struggles to free himself, then he is subject to extreme pain and mental blocking, so that he cannot free himself.
All liberations require that the possessed WANT to be freed and convert back to Jesus Christ. In the case of perfect possession, IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE DELIVERED, but the person must be willing to die even to acheive this freedom. And God, because He is so Good, does indeed free these people.
I have some knowledge of satanists and witches who have the misfortune to give themselves to such evils. I have had to learn these things. I have come across blogs in which they discuss how most effectively to cast curses on others... Witches advertise gatherings on certain websites. I don't advise you visit these! Yes, curses can be communicated through internet, not just crystal balls or mirrors...
I know it sounds crazy, but it is real. You might as well hear it hear first.
God bless...
hear hear!
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If it sounds too crazy, it probably is.
Then, there is what Father Gerald Fitzgerald, s.P. said of priests who abuse the young. In a 1940s letter to Archbishop Edwin Vincent Byrne of Santa Fe, he wrote, "these men, Your Excellency, are devils and the wrath of God is upon them".
So much esoteric academic babble up above- you guys need to leave the legion once and for all.
as for me- I would not cross the street to spit on Garza's face or kick alvaro in the fleshy part where his ballsack should be. I would not waste my urine on maciel's grave or the effort of a baseball bat swinging into sada's teeth.
I try to forget them because, yes, I truly hate them. They are sinful, evil, evil, evil people- all of them.
Who wrote me those 9 fucking letters I got and was told to read on my knees before the blessed sacrament? Not MM. Sada? Did you committ spiritual FRAUD??? Who knew about all this bullshit and kept their mouth closed? Those three fucktards watched the POPE- the POPE people, THE POPE praise MM and they sat their silent and did nothing.
Faiths have been lost- souls have been lost because of this. So whatever a perfect possession is or understanding the nature of evil- who gives a rats ass in Cleveland... all I know is the Legion, as an institution, is pure evil and will eventually kill everyone in it. They will become mindless monsters like Corcuera or they will lose their faith and priest like countless others.
Good men of the legion get out and do some good in a parish. The legion is wrong. It is ugly in God's sight. It is unholy.
Why did Elin beat the shit out of Tiger? Because no anger is greater than when love is betrayed. I loved the Legion. I loved Maciel. And so now that I am betrayed my love has turned to anger and my anger, when told to calm down and understand and forgive, has turned to rage.
Rage against the legion as a fucking abomination and cancer of the Church. Rage against Corcuera, Sada, Balleres, Devlin, Garza, Moreno, Mateos et al. Shame on you- shame and despair all your days. May your food turn to dust and your water to vinegar. May your sunlight be darkness and your sleep be insomnia. May you never fund rest.
No please commentators- don't waste your fucking time writing me about the devil and my need to forgive and find peace. Fuck forgiveness and fuck peace. I want justice and I am due my motherfucking justice for I am a product of:
-9 years of lies
Amen Brother above...it needed to be said. You make some great points.
There is no Santa Clause and there is no Saint Marcial. Both are fictions, the later being not to bring joy to little kids like the former, but to accumulate power, money, and enslave people.
Said that the leaders of the Legion who knew would deceive the Pope like that. Your are 100% correct that they are culpable.
- THE_Br._Dan
Now kids, does the Devil scare you so much that you have to shoo the very thought of him away?
Cowards.
I hold my ground. All the evil you, vomiting and writhing, want to spew on MM (and I don't disagree with you) falls short of the evil that is there. Old Scratch, too, had and has his claw in it.
If you keep shooing it away, I'll just start to suspect that Scratch has his claw in your brains too.
Pederasty is diabolical, and that's not just an adjective, it encloses a reality too horrible for mortals to understand. St John of the Cross says that 2 things will kill a man by the mere sight of it. One is God, whose beauty and goodness overwhelms the mortal that gazes on Him. And the other is the Devil, who kills with his horror.
MM and Satan, Satan and MM... Moderation here is not to ignore either one of them. Don't be rationalists. Believe in God, and his Revelation, who incarnated to free us from sin, death and the Devil.
Good night.
Unfortunately, I know a 'man' (I use the term loosely; he's more of an animal) who is a child molester. I suspect he is possessed. I don't know if he started out that way, but after years of cooperating with the demons that tempted him, and years of lies to cover up his crimes (and getting others involved in his lies), he is completely unrepentant and continues to seek opportunites to abuse children. When confronted with any wrongdoing on his part, his eyes darken; he gets a small, dark brightness in his eyes - I don't know how else to describe it... I know it's strange but I swear I see it - and he gets a creepy grin on his face. And he just continues his lies. So I suspect he is now possessed.
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