Monday, February 2, 2009
It's Out. Maciel is Out.
Today, Fr. Scott Reilly, LC, Territorial Director in Atlanta, Georgia, announced to all those who work in the Territorial Direction of the Legion of Christ, that Marcial Maciel had a mistress, fathered at least one child, and lived a double life. For this reason, the Legion is renouncing him as their spiritual founder.
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142 comments:
Let's hope the Legion does not forget those whom Maciel sexually abused. They have waited decades for an apology.
The L.C. (Legion as Anonymous puts it) is not Father Maciel. They are much more than any one person. They follow our Lord, Jesus Christ, and his church.
No pardon for any wrongdoing - from anyone - yet you, nor anyone else can generalize/stereotype the L.C. as an organization bent on doing wrong or harming others.
Not many things can be said at this time about this issue, but irrespective of how this plays out, the L.C. will continue. It will go on doing the Lord's work, helping the poor, bringing the gospel to all who need it.
If anything is learned about this, is that our faith will bring us together, to do more, to help more.
I stand here with hurt at these accusations, be they true or not, have they a grain of salt or not. Yet it really does not matter in the grand scheme of life, whereas a community of men and women will carry on the faith of the Roman Catholic Church.
We hurt for our offenses to all, our lack of gentleness to those that may have been hurt, but we will not stop believing in our Lord. We will not turn our backs to the church. If anything this will make us strong in our faith. We must be kinder, open hearted, generous, and never look down upon those that may not agree with us - nor appreciate us.
I cannot speak for everyone, only for myself: with the Lord's help I will not falter.
The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me;
your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.
May the Lord bless us all and keep us.
Robert Fraschetti
Robert, that's exactly what someone says who is stuck on stupid! That's the lamest of all lame replies. Is the "Lord's Work" using and abusing others? Is it taking over good works that others have started and kicking them out? Is it lying to parents and taking away their kids? Is it drawing off vocations and resources that would otherwise go to parishes? Threats and lies and guilt? That's the real fruit of the Legion and Regnum Christi. You have been drinking too much kool-aid, pal. But I want the Lord to bless us all and keep us, too.
Dear Anonymous (wonder what your real name is): I do feel sorry, but it is for you, and I say that with kindness and not being condescending. No one is stuck on stupid - at least not by my standard. Again, I can reply that the Lord's work is not only L.C. It's not Father Maciel's. It's the work of all Christians. Please try to find some kindness in your heart and put it to good use. All the negative aspects that you mention have not been a part of L.C. or R.C.
If you REALLY want the Lord to bless and keep us, then try to do so - but not by bashing a group of dedicated men and women that believe in the Lord, and try to do his work around the globe. Where is your compassion? Where is your kindness? Am I asking you for too much?
Robert Fraschetti(my real name, not anonymous)
And again, if errors/mistakes/serious offenses were committed by Father Maciel, does that really make the whole group guilty? Should we all be punished?
Are you free from sin?
I am not a great orator, nor command a great amount of knowledge from the bible, but please keep the following in mind:
The LORD is the LORD. Anything else is idle worship. We are all human.
Love God. Serve Him alone.....
God will save us in spite of us..... What a mystery.
We have all offended the Lord.
..... at one time or another......
Anonymous, I will close my observation of this blog with the following - hopefully it may be of some use to you, as it has been for me - :
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Kind regards,
Robert Fraschetti
Robert "I stand here with hurt at these accusations, be they true or not, have they a grain of salt or not." -- YOUR OWN PEOPLE HAVE ADMITTED IT!!!!!
The man was totally CORRUPT!!!!
And he formed the LC, it is a twisted reflection of him. You still don't get the LC does NOT = Church.
Dear "Anonymous" and other readers: I have tried to explain as simply as I can - and as I am - that L.C. is NOT Father Maciel. It is quite apparent that you are not interested in someone else's viewpoint, only yours.
If a man is corrupt, that alone by no measure implies that the whole organization is corrupt. If not, then many world govenments, police forces, military, clubs, unions, companies and politicians would by extension, also be corrupt.
The L.C. may not be THE Church, but I believe that not you, nor anyone, can belittle the achievements of either this or other similar groups in taking the Gospel to many people.
I bear no ill will towards you. I can only hope and pray that you find comfort in the Lord, that what appears to be a strong negative attitude towards the L.C. can only be construed as an innocent attempt to make sense of this terrible news - and not a concerted effort at undermining the Catholic Church.
Anonymous, unfortunately I do not know you, so I do not know with whom I have shared the past couple of hours regarding this topic, but I sincerely hope that you will try to understand what I have written. I am not a zealot, and I hope that my writing is not taken as an excuse for any wrongdoing, but do not try to generalize/stereotype the L.C./R.C. into a "twisted reflection of him". We only have to serve Christ and his Church, not any person, not any one person. As a memeber of R.C., I can only give my allegiance to Christ, his Church and the Vicar of his Church on earth. If that is not good enough for you, then I am truly sorry for you.
May you find the Lord's blessing in your life.
Good day,
Robert Fraschetti
Santiago, Chile
"All the negative aspects that you mention have not been a part of L.C. or R.C."
Robert, they absolutely are.
Jake.
Robert, classic. Thanks for reminding me of what it was like being in, lol.
That, or you're a moron. All that talk of the founder is just out the window and they carry on without even a "sorry"? gimme a break.
It is the greatest religious fraud in history.
And I'm a cofounder of it for all eternity! lol
I need to get some t-shirts printed up pronto with "Who's your founder now?"
Wait Robert, what about this - His letters reveal him to be an integral priest, as a founder and confessor, as a friend of Christ, and as a son of the Church - lol. That's awesome.
Don't you wonder about every superior in the order? About the spiritual discernment? About the life inspired and approved by him?
"How can he be guilty of pedophilia, look at all his good works like the Legion and the movement"
Can we prove or assert the converse now? Since he wasn't good, neither was his creation? If he wasn't in the state of grace/acting WITH the Holy Spirit, then can the results of his actions be free from blame?
Hey, do they have that private form on file that we all signed, you know, the one that says I will not hold the Church responsible for my sexual misconduct, lol? Bust that out at least. Or did he have an exception from the Holy See for that too?
Sheesh, Robert, that flushing sound? yeah, that's the congregation you know and love so well.
Now wait a minute, i can understand where Robert's coming from as a former LC myself.
I can see both sides here. But in true charity we must do all to support the Legion and RC during this trying time. Certainly the walls will come crashing down, but that's part of the purification that MUST go on.
So any lack of charity on our parts is not helpful to the situation at hand. Let us do our best to reach out the LC/RC during this tempest of a time.
I just called Cheshire and the brother that answers the phone didn't know anything. However, Fr. Alvaro Corcuera is at Cheshire today and I believe he will be talking to the congregation there about the situ. Fr. Owen Kearns is also there to quiet the storms...
Pray.
PK
http://www.life-after-rc.com/
Robert Fraschetti, you're doing the right thing in placing your allegiance in the right place: Christ and His Church.
However, in all this we have to question the foundation and working of the Legion and RC. There seems to be a lot lying going on. What does that say about the organization and the movement? Anyone?
PK
Praying for you, Robert Fraschetti!
http://www.life-after-rc.com/
Owen Kearns would be there to lie and coverup like he has done for many years now.
well, with all that egg on their face they won't have to go begging for breakfast as they stuff their MILLIONS into their Pictet & Cie accounts...
So they've got that going for them. Which is nice.
For those who would like to call for yourselves:
Legion of Christ Novitiate -
475 Oak Ave, Cheshire - (203) 271-0805
Again, the Superior General, Fr. Alvaro Corcuera, is in Cheshire today. I can only imagine why he's there.
Keep us posted! It's looks like there's going to be an implosion.
PK
Robert, just remember that you've been lied to all these years, about Fr MM's sinful life. The big problem with the LC isn't the sin, but the coverup. And what about the way the men who were abused were treated? You can't just dump MM and bury it; you have to face what has been done to Maciel's victims. They've been called "liars" all these years.
Exactly. Thank you, Jeannette. Nicely put.
For many of us, the "spirit of the Legion" has been anything but charitable. Starting with the nine original abusers and continuing all the way down to lay people who dared to question, any dissenters were vilified with personal attacks of the most vicious and horrific kind. Many of us experienced firstly the disillusionment and sorrow of discovering the Movement was built on sand; and then the horror of having our careers questioned, our marriages gossiped about, even our children slandered because of our questions. We were kicked -- and then spat upon and stomped -- while we were down. I can only pray that God gives us the graces to treat those many souls experiencing this disillusionment today more charitably than so many of us have been treated for all these years.
Thank you for your words, Anon. Very appropriate.
I speak as an ex-rc member. I swallowed the "movement" hook, line and sinker. I lived and loved it, until it was made very clear that we were being manipulated and I separated from it. I have always loved the faith and church, so in the end, thank the good Lord that is what saved me.
I can only describe to you what I experienced. It was a mental, spiritual rape. A rape of the soul. We were taught through the use of their materials, i.e. catechesis, a form of mind control. We were constantly attending encounters and retreats. Always told that our first vocation was to our family and then kept so busy with "apostolates" that our families suffered. I can't tell you how freeing it was to finally be free to take care of my family in the way God called me to do. Free of the demands and schedules and recruiting.
What I experienced was that people with money were treated very different from people who did not. That is also the reason some people just can not see the corruption. They are treated so well that they never see the control that goes on.
It has been 8 years since I have been out. It took me 3 years after leaving to finally feel some sort of healing. It has been my daily prayer, along with my daily sufferings that I beg Our Lord to put this enemy under His feet. I pray daily for the souls still in it who are living it more than I ever did, and who will suffer more than me from this scourge on the faithful.
My prayer is that those who have authority will act as they should. I hope that this evil will be completely taken down and made new. With a new name, new norms, and all the abusers within, found and taken out. This HAS to stop.
Dear Lord have mercy on your faithful and lead us to Your truth. We do not need ANY MOVEMENT to become the saints God wants us to be. The Lord has given us everything we need. We have the sacraments!
Amen, brother!
The spiritually of the founder has a profound impact on the spirituality of their congregation. In the many years of RC and finally the reason I left was how I saw people being used. I think this is consistent with how the Legion was founded. I think the Legion is done. How are they going to respond when recruiting someone and that person wants to know more about the origins of the order? Do they tell the truth that he was a scoundrel or do they ignore it and be deceptive and hope the person does not find out? And what do you do once a person does find out? Do you think they will feel betrayed because you were not transparent? How will they reform themselves. All reforms of religious congregations go back to the origins of their founder. Practically speaking they are dead in the water. They will either go out quickly or die a slow death. In the end religious congregations come and go but Christ Church will go on.
Johnny,
Yes, they will continue to lie and cover up. They are already changing all their websites. Go look at them. There's now a completely minimilistic view of the role MM played. Before, it was love him, read about him, live him. Now it looks like, "oh yeah, he was just some guy..." Many of the links to his works now link to Fr. Alvaro's writings. It's very bizarre and twisted.
Great comment, JOhnny. Surely the reform will have to be just as it's posted - the renunciation of the founder. They can't go on living a lie and covering up the truth of Fr. Maciel. The only way to begin reform is to renounce the founder and rebuild on the basis of an apostolic movement dedicated to the Church.
Anon, can you provide some examples for us? Please.
The issue here is one of reform. I am not a Church historian, but I have spoken to people that are. Never in the history of the Church has an order survived with a corrupt founder. Understand that there may have been orders "approved by the Church" initially but then dissolve because of some moral issue with the founder. Logic follows that the Holy Spirit communicates the charism to the founder of a religious order but if the founder is corrupt, according to Catholic belief, the Spirit is unable to communicate to the person because of their moral situation. It is basic catechism stuff. When a religious order reforms it returns to the original charism and intent of the founder. The LC cannot rewrite history. This is obviously not of God. That is my simplistic lay interpretation of what I have heard.
To the post at February 3, 2009 10:48 AM
Thank you for posting. That was my same experience. I was in RC for 4 yrs and have been out for 1 and am still trying to heal. All those people who said how much they love me haven't spoken to me at all in a year. People who I thought were my real friends dropped me like a hot potato as soon as I started questioning things. I slowly started to realize that my marriage & my family are NOT my first apostolate, they are my vocation. RC was an apostolate, not a vocation. They have it all mixed up & backwards, but they suck you into some kind of warped mind controlling vortex that's so hard to get out.
Problems:
The scandal of the founder is just the start.
The entire cadre of leadership is steeped in and modeled on the words of the founder. What do you do with that group of 50 or so who are major and territorial superiors?
What is the charism? Who received it? Do they go with a Servite model, several cofounders they call true founders?
Why should we believe in Fr Alvaro or any other LC who was close and was blind or duped to the founder's duplicity? Where is the discernment of spirits? Their uncritical obedience is a huge black mark on them, so where are their marks of holiness? And if someone uses the fruits/holiness quote they get a shoe thrown at them - the context of that quote is PRECISELY about false teachers.
Where does this leave the charges of child abuse? That must be answered and resolved.
Where are the apologies for misleading so many good men into the Legion, the systematic deceit? "We were duped"? "Just following orders"? - not good enough!
What about benefactors? Recruits? In short, how do you integrate when the founder has no integrity? What is there that is not common to the whole Church?
And what about all the accolades and those in the Vatican that praised him, those that covered for him, testified to his innocence, mocked and derided those who spoke the truth?
Good points everyone. There's a line of disception here. How far does it go? Who knows. This is just the beginning...
Let the truth be known!
Please give the LC time to regroup! They need time now to process all that has come to light and I trust that their fidelity to the Magisterium will carry then through this dark night of purification. I am not a member of the LC or RC, and place my trust that the Congregation responsible for religious life at the Vatican will provide direction for the future. While pruning/purification hurts, we know that for those who love the Lord, all will work unto the good.
Anthony,T.O.Carm.
Understandably hurt people here. "As we forgive those who..." I wish Gods grace for all those who will try to fully do this through their life. Forgiveness brings graces, and that's part of the Christian mystery some here can participate very deeply in.
I've met many Legionaries through the years. Most of the seminarians kick butt. They will be the future. Can an organization grow healthy? Can it grow healthy from a seed like this? The future is in the young - and don't think for a second that there aren't some more experienced hands who have been privately suffering and praying for these days.
What will the future hold? Look to the young. That's what it holds. I see a humbler (that's a big one), poorer, and purer Legion. I see a new name. Possibly a grafting with another order. In the end, what happens with leadership out of Mexico will determine the timing and path of the future course. I think it needs to be replaced.
Many changes have already been put in place. Are they concessions to allow an unhealthy core to continue? Or is it still the early stages with much more to come, resulting in comprehensive, meaningful structural changes?
For any reading this who "had" a vocation - I ask -- how can the Legion take away what God gave you? It's not theirs to take. It IS YOURS to respond to. My biggest concern with this order has been that true vocations - awesome vocations - are being lost. Hopefully an event like this will snap free any lingering bonds and binding doubts one may have been given through mis-direction about their calling. Be free!
There are a great many very good young men in this organization today. May they be able to go forth in God's spirit and fulfill the true mission God has given them. And may the exact same gift be given to those who have left out of necessity following their conscience. Amen!
I don't know much about the LC except for two separate times when my parish priest was unavailable in an emergency two different LC priest helped me and my family out tremendously. And I never was asked for a donation or to join any group. I will always be grateful to those two priests. And I will keep them all in my prayers.
therese
The scandal will create a huge amount of resistance to anything they do. It will only add fuel to the people that have had their bridges burned by the Legionaries and there are a lot. How are they going to have any credibility with a diocese? This is not going to be pretty. The only places where they will be able to operate is where they have permanent establishments. This will put an end to their road teams. Nobody is going to trust them as out of towners. What will this do to their fund raising? Huge implications
Maybe this is God’s way of saving all the souls of truly good Catholics that have been lured into deception.
There are so many good Christians involved with RC and the Legion that have been manipulated into what really is a building up of the “Movement” and not the Church. It is so much more than pedophilia or pederasty. It is about is a culture that leaves carnage in its wake. I hope the Legion can extricate themselves from all of the issues and become the Order and “Movement” that really could do wonders for the Church of Jesus Christ and not worship at the altar of Maciel, his methods, and deceit.
Just a thought, has anyone ever wondered where the devil might go to try to bring down the Church? Maybe he would disguise himself as a solid Catholic person or organization to lead good Catholics down path away from the Church. Most of them without even realizing until it is too late.
MH
Doesn't Jesus tell us to judge a tree by its fruits? From my personal experiences with Regnum Christi and the Legion it has done nothing but lead people closer to God and the Sacraments. It encourages one to become closer to Christ through the Eucharist and to encounter him through all people.
Doesn't our adversary the devil try to destroy all that is good? From what I can see Regnum Christi and the Legion produce good. EVEN IF the founder of the movement became corrupt, the mission that he started has sparked many to come back to the faith and has encouraged many to give their life to the Mother Church.
One should rejoice when worldly scandals are thrown in their direction - it means that they are on the right path toward eternal life as the lives of the saints are proof of such.
- A friend of The Church
In many ways, the leaders of the Movement use piety, sacraments, connections to the late Pope. etc to produce the outcome for the Movement which is disguised as Mother Church. As stated, there are so many good Christian in RC/LC.
"One should rejoice when worldly scandals are thrown in their direction - it means that they are on the right path toward eternal life as the lives of the saints are proof of such." - The Jesus Christ complex, is only a line of the Legion used to control its members from using reason to find Truth. Poor, poor pitful, PERSECUTED me.
It sounds like "A friend of the Church" is a perfect expamle of good Catholic wanting to become better and closer to God. Unfortunaley, in my opinion, the anti-Catholic elements of the Legion and maniupaltion of "charity" poisons the good.
MH
When you are caught RED-HANDED in serial multi decade crimes, like the USCCB (Unremoved Sexual Criminal Cabal Bishops) you appoint a 'commission' to deflect wrong doing.
When the commission denounces the overt criminality as "a bunch of La Cosa Nostra" you fire those members of the commision, and appoint new lap dogs, while diverting/stealing literally billions of laity offetory plate dollars, to the continued pedo cover up, daily reported on in verified & vetted stories at: www.bishop-accountability.org
/abusetracker.
When you are a Mexican money laundering religious order(drug cartels and Carlos Slim Helu) to the Vatican Bank (Congregation Of Works) so JP II looks the other way, you deflect, deny, and defend, until the guilty founder is DEAD, and then blame all ills on the dead founder.
Apples do not fall far from the tree. And the trees in question are SNAKE infested.
St. Peter Damien remains correct in his assertion: "STOP DONATING LAITY!"
Albino Luciani,
MURDERED POPE,
Not Smiling, From Heaven
Reading all these intellectual comments one could assume from this that saints are composing these comments. Unless we all forget one more time, it was never about Father Maciel it was about Christ.
So... for those LC bashers ask me where and how you are getting your formation today in the Catholic Church? Forgetting RC for a moment, what is the methodology you are using to stay on track and grow spiritually?
For those LARC members you could not handle the responsibility to bring others to Christ. Father Maciel has the guts to do something that no other priest wanted to do in his time. Go ahead and bash him we are Catholics above all and my personal virtues need improvement. I follow Christ and his teachings not a priest. You do not get it.
God bless
To Anonymous Friend of the Church
Fruits? There was good and bad. At first all I saw was "good fruits" as you describe, thus the attraction, and the reason I recruited others so heavily. As I started hearing of bad fruit, I explained it away. Until I could not explain anymore. Then I started to look around and realize that there was bad fruit all around, especially the using of relationships, the busy apostolates that kept people from addressing the real needs at hand, the silencing of anyone who questioned, the misrepresentation of those who did question as "campaigners of negativity." These questioners actually wanted the movement to succeed, they loved what they thought it was, "the hope for the Church," and wanted to see things get better by asking about the things that were going wrong. The best thing that ever happened for us was getting away. We were the lucky ones because we did have a solid foundation before we entered the movement. So prayer life improved, family relationships improved, parish life improved (no more agenda monkey about how to get RC apostolate in or recruit new members to RC.) And a new trust was found with members of the local clergy and our family. Freedom and Love!
Christ is our hope.
Getting better after 3 years out.
It's a cult, people. It needs to be chopped down. A bisexual, crazy, con-man founder? Just normal Church history? NO reform, no new name, no new cofounders - send everyone home where they can get psychological treatment and help rebuilding their mental and spiritual health and reaquaint themselves with REALITY.
Do we have any official statement of the reality of all this? Proof? Anyone?
The problem with people coming from Robert's perspective or the perspective of someone who hasn't had any direct dealing with the LC/RC is that they don't know how closely tied to Maciel the Legion is. Celebrating his mother's birthday, reading his letters as spiritual direction, etc... I didn't really understand it myself even after hearing the story someone close to me told of his experience. It wasn't until I started reading many other stories that were all very similar to his that the full impact of the situation started to sink in. I know the anger those who have been abused by the LC/RC feel. I see it in this person I love. But please, try to direct that anger into a productive course of action like sharing your story over and over with as many people who will listen. It does make a difference! God bless you all!
C.W.
That's the comment made at 1:53 that says it all.....send them home where they can get treatment.
I would like to think it could be salvaged some how, but the more I think about it - the more I think it is a tree that needs to be chopped down. It's rotten to the core. Every superior in it has been trained it's filth. How do you rehabilitate that?
I am not saying that there are not good people in it....but the foundation is putrid. This situation needs to be corrected and dealt with transparency. I just have this awful feeling some other group is going to swoop down and save the day....i.e. take over. Some times that old saying comes to mind....If I only live so long.....
I will say one thing...forgiveness is a healing balm - but the church also has an obligation to correct the evil that has been done to so many people...in Christ's mercy - shut it down.
Maybe MM's daughter has a vocation to the Regnum Christi consecrated life? That guy was a loopy one thats for sure.
Any proof for all you're saying? What do you fail to substantiate your frightening claims?
Do those that condemn not understand that those within the LC and RC movements feel betrayed, disgusted, angered and saddened as well? Most if not all of those that work around or within the Legion, do so to answer God's call to praise the Gospel and live their faith. They have not signed up to praise Fr. Maciel as a god on earth! As a non-LC/RC member, all I have ever seen of those associated with the Legion is good work, faith and love. They have never brainwashed me, asked me to sweep anything under the rug or treated the wealthy or poor any differently.
I will continue my work as the Lord has asked me to do and I will stand behind the Legion in its time of purification. Our bed has been made for us and for those that believe in the current director and the work of the Legion as it is today, we will continue.
Yes, it is awful what has happened and any attempt to cover it up should be exposed and those that covered it up removed from leadershiop roles, but please do not punish the individuals who intended to join the Legion to do great works for the Church.
God Bless you all. I pray that those within the legion stay strong, those that have been harmed are exonerated and apologized to and that those that choose to spread anger, hatred and condemnation are met with peace.
Come on all you people who thought this Maciel guy was legitimate....Think about it, what good ever came out of Mexico!!! Why the hell would it start with him?
I agree you cannot fault the young legionaries for SIR MM the greats faults. However, how many of the older LC's may have known about this and said nothing due to the "Vow of Silence" SIR MM bestowed upon them. I think in a couple more days/weeks the shit is really going to hit the fan. Stick a fork in them, their done
I just listen to you and feel sad for all the souls that will be lost to the devil, this is exactly what he wanted.
Bless you all
Do those that curse and show hatred and malice and only blog to make everyone else feel horrible know that they look riduculous and they don't seem very intelligent....remember that most of these people did not committ this grave offense. As an observer who has not taken sides....All I see from the LC/RC members is kindness and asking for peoples prayers and forgiveness. All I see from the other side is nastiness and hatred.
If you are upset within the Legion, be constructive and spend your time in prayer for the Church.
The accusations? From a life time 30 year plus Legionary fan...who chooses to remain anonymous... Sad, but true.
I'm a "new" anonymous: A few years ago, the LC's came to the holy pastor of my Texas parish, made an impressive presentation of what they were about, and asked him if the LC's could make our parish their regional "home church" or headquarters or whatever you call it.
We knew nothing about them except what we heard, which seemed to be pretty edifying. Funny thing, the Pastor asked the parish council for their input (though he had already decided against the LCs without telling anyone) and the whole council--very holy people, I know all of them well--each said that they didn't feel that it was a parish vocation to welcome the LCs, though they felt a bit embarrassed at such an "unwelcoming" attitude: One man told me, "I just feel uneasy about hosting the LCs at our parish, and I have learned over the years that's the Holy Spirit's warning to back off".
Now I hear about the terrible character of their founder MM, --and realize that our pastor and his flock all have a very dependable gift of discernment. I don't understand why so many others have been taken in by the RC and LC--we are supposed to pray for the gift of discernment, and then use it. I will say this: everybody on that parish council goes to the Sacrament of Penance at least monthly, and most of them weekly; so that indicates that they are serious about their own spiritual lives, and I guess Prudence and Discernment are predictable side effects.
Now I won't have to feel like I am going to hell after reading "Envoy". Its seems MM was on one of his LSD trips when he wrote his letters. Peace, love, and Unity Mr. MM!!! No more then a con artist thats all he was.
I was hoping this blog would be a little more positive faced to the suffering of many LC/RCs right now...
What I don't get is how you all can so openly criticize a congregation and movement that Pope Benedict and the popes prior (and our present pope knowing the information he does know, and NOT being duped), not only approves of but encourages to continue, having given his apostolic blessing to them just days ago.
Who are we to cast stones?
And who are we to judge when we don't have all the facts?
We should listen to what the church and LC themselves are admitting...and not accuse participants in these organizations, like accusing the children of the sins of the father. Not even Christ did that...
Besides, I bet they're just as relieved as all of us to have the truth figured out.
God bless you all.
Seeking Truth, A lot of people were victimized by Legionarie tactics, directly abused and consequently isolated. No one would listen to them or believe them. This is very painful to experience. I would not be too harsh on someone if they seem to be angry since they where the real victims.
To the person who posted at 2:41 PM - Thank you!
We are all the Church and many are sad today. Let's place our trust in Christ and the Magisterium to guide us at this time.
I know my Lord more personally and love the Church with all my heart because of RC. Thanks be to God for holy souls. Keep on praying, everyone!
This orgainzation is filled with innocent bystanders and willing accomplices. Only God knows where we all stand.
Legionaries of Christ acknowledge founder’s ‘inappropriate’ behavior.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14969
One of the most damaging things for any organisation is uncritical and adulatory obeisance to a merely human leader.
That has been the leitmotiv of many Catholic movements and their members since Vatican II.
It is a completely bogus way to view authority.
Catholics used to have a much more practical and sensible approach to authority.
This cult of personality is simply not Catholic and is highly dangerous.
The Legion have been doing it for years and those of us who have criticised it for so doing have been odiously labelled disloyal, uncharitable, and many other thoroughly unpleasant names.
We would like an apology, please. Not just for our own sakes but for the sake of the Church and of truth.
Now that we have been proved so strikingly and dramatically right (and I feel very sad for the people who have been duped by the Legion's ridiculous cult of personality) we should be seeing humble apologies and beating of breasts from the Legion's leadership and supporters, not all this self-justifying twaddle.
The time for that is OVER.
The time for a very serious re-think and repentance has now arrived.
Learn the lesson: Christ is our God. Not Fr Maciel. Not even the Pope (great tho' he is).
We obey Christ first and foremost. And that means that if our superior is defying Christ then we defy our superior - in the name of Christ's law and teaching.
Re-learn this vital lesson, people!
“Fr. Maciel died over a year ago and obviously whatever has happened is between him and God and God’s judgment and mercy, so we’re going to let him take care of that.”
Yes, between him, God and about 60,000 innocent bystanders. Awesome quote Jim Fair.
"I know that there have been rumors about are we somehow denouncing him. Obviously we are not."
No, we are tying him around our neck, collectively as a congregation. Nice and tight. Going to go on a nice vacation to the ocean, maybe take a swim.
I think the people who are doing the most criticizing are the ones who were in the Legion directly. Whether they are the Ex LC's, Consecrated, Co- Workers or however they may have served (Anyone who "lived the community Life"). These are the people who were conned by MM.
You people who are criticizing the criticizers are most likely the rich suburban RC families living on the golf course somewhere whom the Legion bent over backwards for to get your money. Therefore, you have a completely different view of them then we do. The ones who lived the life and were MM's whipping boys are the ones who have reasons to criticize.
His methodology is clearly flawed and things will need changed. He only used it as a cover up while he was knocking up the Mexican chics.
"LC's appear Holy, therefore MM must be holier" That's what he conned people to believe. So noone within RC would even question his hoiliness. He sure was a shrewd SOB, I'll give him that.
hello everyone. im a RC member from germany (so please excuse my bad english). i am very confused and sad right now.
I was working for the legion and did a coworking year , even met father marciel once in rome and talked to him.
through personal cercumstances I wasn`t in tough with the legion now for over a year (to be honost, not living in grace right now and having a child unmarried..hope I find the strength to find my way back into god`s friendship soon.)
It is all so incredible. the bible says "what the heart is full of the mouth speaks about". I read most of his letters. It confuses me so much that someone who worte and spoke so much about the glory of god and really had deep thoughts about the myserium dei, can do such things at the same time.
I do see the problem with how can the spirit of the movement be legitimet, but the constitution was approved by the pope. so here is a big ??? if it is approved how can you change it? woudn`t that mean that the magisterium was wrong, but that is impossible. That is what we as catholics can always rely on,. that the magistrium will never lead us the wrong way.
let me just say two words regarding the legion:
I lived with them for over a year and my impression is that there are very holy priests and humble.
They never brainwashed me.
Even now, my girlfriend and mother of our child still works in one of their kindergardens, they never tried to set any presure on me or her.
i`ll wait what will happen, they didn`t confirm jet that he really abused young men. but if he did so, i feel very very sorry for the victims.
don`t be "more catholic than the pope" , I want to be a good person, a good catholic, but I also do not have my sexuality always under control and i am very sad about this, but thats the way it is. does that make me a bad person? this descion is up to god i think.
this should not excuse a propable abuse but just to say...
...well all i can say is i`m very sad and confused right now...
I feel sorry for those who were molested by Maciel, and then were treated as liars when the bravely spoke out. May God be with them and strenghten them.
I feel sorry for those who have felt betrayed because they put their heart into this movement in good faith, only to discover the awful, evil acts done by the founder.
I'm sure the majority of those involved are (and were) very good souls who sincerely put their heart into it. And God who sees the heart will reward (and punish) accordingly.
I pray for justice, truth and forgiveness for all involved.
Glenn
I have just read through this whole myriad of words, anger, frustration...and I truly feel sorry for all of you. I am a long time member of Regnum Christi, and have a son in the seminary with the Legion of Christ. It is sad that the angry people are always the most vocal. Some valiantly tried to represent the other side, but it is clear that their voices were not heard. I am a faithful, intelligent woman and I have NEVER EVER seen what some of you are talking about. It is apparent by some of your crude humor, your vengeful attitudes and spiteful comments that you are working through some sort of misguided anger. If ANY of you felt that your Apostolate took you away from your family...THAT IS YOUR OWN FAULT...the movement NEVER EVER imposes that. It is clear that your new found "freedom" stems from guilt over what you may have allowed to be an excess in your own personal life. We can have MANY vocations in our lives...we live a married vocation, a single vocation, vocation to be the best student we can be...and ALL of them are REAL VOCATIONS.. It amazes me when I read stuff like this how twisted you have all become...you paint the picture that you somehow are more intelligent, more insightful, more aware, and even more CATHOLIC for you have seen all of this "evil". My son has been with the Legion since High School and let me just set the record straight, he has NEVER been coerced, NEVER manipulated, his freedom to make decisions has always been supported, our family life has been honored and respected, he has really just been encouraged to be all that God has called him to be...to live a life of virtue, faith and service...if you all call that "brainwashing" then I say...we should brainwash ALL the youth today! This thing about people with money in RC...what planet are you living on? There are people from ALL walks of life in the movement and ALL are treated with dignity and respect. Some of my friends who struggle financially actually have been held up in the movement as examples of raising their families with an openness to God's plans, setting themselves aside and have always been giving much respect. It is so so so sad to see all of you that have so much anger and resentment. Mark my words though, one day, you will have meet God and you will have to explain to Him why you have resorted to calumny and spreading evil gossip. That will remain on YOUR conscience. I can say this...ALL have fallen far short of the glory of God. What Fr. Maciel's indescretion shows me...is that GOD ALONE can work through any one. HE is greater than one man's sin. You have to separate the SIN from the IDEAL. No one in the Legion or Regnum Christi is following a man...other than Christ. A man can be flawed, but the work can be good and holy. Is that a hard concept for you to grasp? Look at what God did through King David...or how God has protected His church through the ages...through clearly sinful men leading it. When this latest persecution passes...it will show the good and holy priests and Brothers of the Legion of Christ. Do you really think that the HUNDREDS of ordained priests of the Legion and the THOUSANDS of Brothers...all of whom are gifted and intelligent men, have somehow ALL been duped? REALLY? That defies logic. Fr. Maciel was a fallen man, but the work that GOD did through him is GOOD and HOLY. Let go of your rage...it is not only hurting you, but the whole body of the church. What this should prompt each and everyone of us to do is to examine our OWN VOCATIONS and reflect...Are we living our vocations with fidelity? Examine your own faithfulness and then see, who of you can cast the stone now?
Dear 7:14 PM. You are in complete denial. You know damn well that RC talked about Maciel as a living saint. You yourself have worked and/or prayed for the canonization of his mother for the sole reason that her blessed womb carried the evil, twisted monster that is Maciel. You have been lied to by your RC and LC superiors again and again. Wake up! You are refusing to see the plain truth because then you will have to account for the fact that you gave them your son at a young age. Right now you can't handle that guilt.
But the truth is the truth. Let your son know that you will accept and love him whatever he does. Let him know it is ok to leave. And leave this pack of liars.
The fact that for decades the seminarians and brothers could *ONLY* go to confession to their Superiors/Priests in the Legion shows that there was some very dangerous "cult like" behavior within the movement for a very long time.
@7:58
this might be recomended to the brothers. but the members of RC were always free to go to confession whereever they wanted.
it is simply not right to give the movement a picture of some kind of a sect it wasn`T and it isn`T
i am grateful for having known many wonderful people throughout my time with RC. I beleive because one man was corrupt (and still that is not proven) you cant rule out the good and selfless deeds done by thousands of good and well-meaning men and women.
the Pope has read through and confirmed with an imprimatur the entire constitution of the Legion and RC, and JPII - undeniably a saint - was close to a supportive of Fr. Marciel. Can one "so corrupt" go by unnoticed under the wise and holy eyes of such a great saint of God? He confirmed his work... I find that difficult to be reconciled with.
One thing is clear, Christ is lord of history and is the way, the TRUTH and the life. Let his will be done and may our our hearts be open to it.
I am an ex LC and I could go to confession with any priest I wanted - including a non-LC. Don't know where people are getting facts from. God bless.
I want to hear how someone is going to defend MM's vow of silence which has since been dissolved by the pope.
He did build up holy priests and a zealous movement only to shield his butt pirate tendencies.
I believe alot of the younger LC's are innocent and truly didn't know MM was crookeder then a dogs hind leg, but don't be surprised to start seeing some of the older LC's go down with him.
The problem is not just Maciel's crimes and scandalous behavior, but the deception and lies that accompanied it. He was held up as a saint despite his sinful life; he never admitted publicly to his crimes--and I use the word "crimes" deliberately. Sexual abuse of a minor is indeed a crime.
The Church can't allow that a religious order be founded by a pedophile; if it happened through his deception, it has to be corrected now. A suppression of the order and a regrouping of the good members is called for.
I am sickened to the stomach. A Legionary for just under seven years I am at a loss even in true charity and faith to see how the LC can survive this awful, awful news. Everything we were ever told about this man was one massive lie.
Craig Earley, Liverpool, UK
The whole congregation was built on a lie. And the superiors lied to perpetuate that lie. It was myth and legend. It was a cult of personality.
Between private vows and confession rules and "edifying" conversation and section A doesn't talk to section B- they built an organization that rooted out thought and objectivity.
I was in for 9 years- Cheshire, thornwood, Rome, Salamanca- it was all a big fat lie.
Shame on the whole organization. Shut it down. Close the doors. Give all the land to the diocese.
And burn those damn green books volume I through 12 (or how many there are now). Burn them all. Maybe that will clense the Church of this scourge.
Dear all in Christ,
I find consolation, great consolation what Christ told us to do... when he was referring to the pharasies... do what they tell you to do, but do not follow their example.
In all I have seen of Father Maciel, he only encouraged people to follow Christ. If he did sin, which it appears he did, never did he say that what he was doing was ok. We can also refer to many popes who were bad sinners, fathered children, had people murdered, yes, and many more sins committed by pontifs of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. If we follow the arguement that those who follow a sinful leader are also guilty, then doesn't that make the whole Church a bastard organization as one would have us believe about the LC???? Really, such an arguement is "non-sequitor."
Fact is, what makes a person a bad person or a good person is not if he sins or not... we ALL sin... but whether or not they acknowledge the sin before God in confession, after all, isn't that what God gave us confession for??? And furthermore, that we never teach others our sinful ways and never teach them it is ok... Because as Christ says... it is better that one have a millstone tied around his neck and be cast into the sea than to teach an innocent person how to sin...
And we should all to confession with a FIRM PURPOSE OF AMENDMENT... meaning... we decide with a firm resolution, not to offend God again. If we do... well... we should go again to confession... with again another firm purpose of amendment!
And never follow bad examples of others, but listen to any good teachings they might have for us.
With prayers for all,
Charles Mollenhauer (admittedly... one sinner before GOD!)
MM played his cards well for sure. He saw an opportunity and capitalized on it. He built himself up as a celebrity using sacred resources(Church and Holy members. Once he had the momentum of the RC members behind him he was unstoppable. Anyone who challenged his beliefs or motives was an outcast, you weren't even allowed to constructively criticize him or someone would have had a nervous breakdown.
It was funny to see how afraid the LC's were of him. It was funny to hear them go out of their way just to talk about him when the conversation had nothing to do with him. They had to drive the fact home that "He's our daddy!!"
We all know now that he didn't lead through Christs example. Christ can't work through someone in the state of mortal sin. He used Facist methodology and didn't take shit from anyone within his organization.
It was even to the point were you had to venerate his mother as well. I hope he bought her nice birthday gifts with all the benefactors money he embezzled.
Fifty five years of cover-up. And we are supposed to believe that the Legion JUST FOUND OUT?
Please.
Fr. Alvaro, Fr. Evaristo Sada, Fr. Luis Garza, Fr. John Devlin, Fr. Rafael Moreno, Fr. Antonio Balleres- you had no idea. For decades- no idea. Liars. All of you. You knew- you just chose not to believe and tell people.
And yet you rape the Church of money to build these houses of formation- designed by MM himself with exacting precision- you follow a schedule HE wrote. You follow norms HE wrote. You pray prayers HE wrote. You follow a Rosary HE wrote. And when I confess my sins of rage should I use the act of contrition HE wrote? And obedience to the Constitution HE wrote. And pictures of HIM. And quotes of HIM.
Let me build another spiritual boquet. Let's organize another YFE for HIM to be worshipped. And cut my hair a certain way that HE wants. And the pants and the shoes and the finger nails and the eating and the walking and the posture all HIM.
And he is a FRAUD. He is a liar.
The Legion will not go on- it cannot look at itself without seeing him. HIS chapel, HIS cassocks, HIS words. And everytime is looks at itself it will vomit. I do.
Shame on them all who knew and did nothing. They will pay dearly for the pain they caused so many people who sacrificed under a lie. How many family events did we miss, weddings, funerals, birthdays- you can only get a call once a month- letters read monitored visits- WHY? God's Will we were told.
No. MM's ego. His city built around himself while he sleeps with women, fathers childred, rents heliocopters, flies first class, has a private cook, follows a special schedule and always eats candy "because he needs to". Yet we woke at 4:45am to cook breakfast and stayed up until midnight to prepare for hike and did spiritual reading walking so as not to fall asleep from exhaustion and showered in the cold and played in the snow and hiked in the rain.
Because of God's will?
Shame on you all- you legionaries who knew and did nothing. You who stole my years in a fraud. I spit in your mexican faces and pray that God pities your worthless souls. You evil sick bastards. I hope you rot.
-a former superior
The anonymous "former superior" above;
If you don't give your name, you know that there are some who will view your rant as (even if it is true) as simply anti-Catholic bitterness.
It might be as well to give a name, and where you were the superior of. Your geographic location etc.
9:19 post, The story I like best is when he took the limo to the airport to hop on the concord so he could quickly get to NY where his private helicopter was waiting for him so he could meet Carlos Slim and "beg" for money for his order because they all live a life of poverty. Meanwhile he's blowing over $20,000 just in travel expenses!!
I knew it was to good to be true, nothing good ever came out of Mexico.
To 9:31 Anon;
"nothing good ever came out of Mexico."
Other than Our Lady of Guadalupe, of course. And Juan Diego.
Really, this knee-jerk racism serves no-one.
I pray for you, "a former superior" and for all (including myself), that we all may learn... a deeper meaning of forgiveness... founded in our Lord Jesus Christ, who hung Himself on a cross for US... and for our salvation... to be happy with Him in heaven.
-Charles Mollenhauer
Sorry Simon-
No name. I don't feel like fielding a call from Fr. Owne Kearns or Fr. Bannon. And you know, you just know, this site is monitored. So my anonymity is not cowardice, just... what was the word we were taught "prudente en actuar" although I am not exactly "moderato ni discreto en el hablar".
Fuck- I still can't get those lines out of my head. Maybe the nightmares will go away too.
But I was a superior for 4 years.
And I am beyond disgusted. I am past livid. I feel pure rage and anger. This is not anti-catholic anger. I am still a practicing Catholic. This is anti-legion rage.
There are some great Legionaries. I wish them well and I feel bad for them. But there are some who perpetuated this lie and they deserve to suffer for this insanity.
Everything is one giant LIE. How can a man watch as his childhood home is made a MUSEUM, when he stands next to the POPE, when he designs his own CRYPT in Rome- yet he is a sexual degenerate and fraud? I'm not mad about the sin- I'm made about him saying "read my letters and that will make you a good legionary".
What is a good legionary? Who defines it now? Alvaro Corcuera? Luis Garza? Men who saw exorbadent amounts of cash flowing through this man and said NOTHING? Men who told the road teams to raise money and more money to pay of MM whores?
#222 of the constitution: a legionary should be NOT A FATHER, NOT A SEXUAL DEVIANT, NOT A MONEY LAUNDERER, NOT AN EMBEZZELER, NOT A FRAUD.
Tell me again, MM, tell me again about the path to holiness as found in the legion- YOUR LEGION- a legion that is your piggybank and playground. Hitler didn't have it so good. Nor did Ramses II.
Disgust. Pure unadulterated disgust. Tell us again about chastity and masturbation and impure thoughts in those spirit of the legion class. At least we tried. If I knew sex with the local town girls was an option I would have snuck out of Cheshire at night.
-a former superior
One question...why now? What is the reason for this to come out now? Is it a preemptive strike by the Legion to control negative press about to come out?? I find it hard to believe that these perpetrators would graciously give up this information without reason.
MH
Anonymous ex-superior of the LC,
Sorry, I am no saint... and have my share of sins... but a very HOLY and Catholic DIOCESAN preist taught me that those who use language like "f**k" really have a lack of understanding and respect for human sexuality... and your sad post expresses this sad fact.
With many prayers, Charles Mollenhauer
It is amazing how nasty and cynical the anti-Legion/RC people present their positions, it speaks volumes for their lack of christian charity in speech and lack of class in use of profanity. If they had been around at Christ's time would they have been trying to lynch Peter, who became the head of our church, for denying Christ 3 times or possibly been the pharisees who criticized Christ for healing on the sabbath? They obviously must find themselves above sin which would separate them from Christ because otherwise they could not judge Father Maciel's actions. Regardless of anyone's sins, God, not US, is the final judge. It couldn't be illustrated any clearer than by Christ on the cross turning to the criminal next to him saying "Today you will be with me in paradise." God has mercy on all of us and wants all of us to be with Him for eternity but as humans we have free will and plenty of opportunity to sin. Father Maciel's failings and mistakes are real and when faced with proven truths the Legion acknowledges it. The former RC members who have been taking their shots must be still trying to justify to themselves as to why they left. Secure people don't really need to defend or be vindictive it really serves no purpose other than to reassure their own decisions. RC is not for everyone and that is clear but it is totally at the service of the church to build up the church. One of the main goals of Vatican II was to involve the laity and RC was just one avenue to support that need. There are many movements with many charisms that responded to that call. When you honestly think about it, what earthly reward could all your criticisms of the LC/RC serve any of the Legion? They don't get bonuses or bigger cars for more vocations or more schools. They don't have their own cars, their own houses or even their own clothes. They are given it all for their use. Their goals truly have to be of a little more eternal or supernatural orientation. All you trying to destroy the Legion should ponder whether you yourself would have the fortitude to withstand all the attacks they have withstood. My own pastor(not LC) didn't even like to wear his clerics when all the scandals in the church broke a couple years ago. The Legion is not running or hidding and they are always in their clerics. LC and Consecrated Women of RC live on donations, they own nothing but their bibles and crucifixes, what terrible people! My uncle was a Jesuit, ordained in the early 1900"s in New York, and we used to call him the "professional beggar" in the family because he traveled the world looking for donations to build 2 universities in the Philippines. Would you have accused him of seeking out the "rich" too?" If you wanted to do great works that cost a lot of money do you seek the financially challenged or those who could help you accomplish your mission? I think not. The Jesuits had strict norms as do most orders. They never saw their families in earlier days and they even flogged themselves. Were they masochists, no, that was just part of their norms. But then when Ignatius, the founder of the Jesuits was alive he was accused of heresy, the crime of that time. Mother Theresa was accused of stealing, Padre Pio forbidden from saying Mass and the list of terribly saintly founders goes on.... I pray for Father Maciel, his family, the Legion, the Consecrated and all of the members of RC in this time of persecution but with great faith belief that with the continued support of the Holy Father and God, RC and its great works with flourish. God Bless.
You can read about St. Francis and be proud to be a Franciscan priest. In a hundred years from now, how could you read about MM and even have the slightest desire to join the Legionaries?!?!?!
The foundation must be built on rock. Not MM checkbook!
and really, Anonymous superior LC,
Do you really think that Father Kearns and Father Bannon do not know who you are????
Frankly, you give yourself too much credit.
Let us pray for everyone!
-cm
So let me get this straight: Former superior uses the F word and THAT is what you choose to focus on, versus, oh I don't know, the fact that MACIEL FOUNDED AN ENTIRE ORDER BASED ON FRAUD AND USED HIS ENTIRE LIFE TO USE PEOPLE FOR HIS OWN GRATIFICATION!!! Yes I'm yelling. For Pete's sake, wake up.
Excuse me, but I have posted several times with no fowl language or hatred and just tried to give thoughtful comment. To be anti-Legion is not anti-Catholic. In fact to be purely knowingly with full consent pro Legion is in fact to be ANTI-CATHOLIC. I don’t agree with bad language, racism, hatred or otherwise but I do understand the rage. For you current LC/RC, there is a good chance you will feel the same way some day. Prayers are needed for all sides.
MH
February 3, 2009 9:50 PM,
"The former RC members who have been taking their shots must be still trying to justify to themselves as to why they left. Secure people don't really need to defend or be vindictive it really serves no purpose other than to reassure their own decisions."
Are kidding me!! You can sincerely say this? The LC/RC spent 50% of their time defending MM who lied to their faces.
If I own a store and blatantly lied to you about a product, how could I then condemn you for not coming back to shop at my store. If anything you would tell all your friends not to shop at my store because I am an unhonest business man, just as MM was an unhonest clergy man.
If being the man who lied to you simply said,"I am but human forgive me, please continue shopping at my store", would that really get you back to my store? Or would you merely go across the street and get the exact same product from someone you trust?
Face it RC's product may be solid but foundations aren't.
Thats all I am saying.
This matter requires discernment. For those without it, for those wanting a satisfactory explanation, go to members of this organization in question. Ask your questions. Bring a witness. Report your results. If you are not satisfied with the responses, or some kind of "need to know" response, or deferment to another individual--and do ask for a day by which they will reply, a month, two or three--why not send a mole into the organization? Or, why not admit that God is bigger than all of it, place it into his hands and be done after you speak your truth. Healing will come... not by denying wrongs committed but by God's grace. And, for our German brother who is concerned about the Magisterium's acceptance of the Legion, did not Jesus himself establish a traitor in the midst through Judas? Yes. Do not be surprised. A greater good can come from it. Have hope. Ultimately, if the Legion desires a new image, perhaps they should change the name by which they are called--for they are many....and their are many who belong and desire good. But, as a former teacher in one of their schools--and not desiring to become one of the consecrated of Regnum Christi, and objecting to a practice I found disobedient to our local Bishop, I found myself avoided, falsely accused, taken to court by it's members, saw lies told to the families of students I taught, and was purified. I am grateful to have worked at a Legionnaire School. I grew from the experience--especially in discernment, but, also in Wisdom. In closure, and to finish a thought above, the matter of disobedience to which I objected was when our Local bishop wrote a letter to school employees not permitting the LC priests to celebrate either Mass or offer sacraments to any of the kids on our school grounds. When I stepped into the parking lot after school, I saw a line of kids at the van. One by one, they stepped in, confessed, and exited. When I questioned the priests, they explained that they were not on the grounds, they were in the van. I reported the matter to my principal and local pastor. In sum, one individual should not be the representation of all--unless He is perhaps Christ. Perhaps those in need of healing and greater explanations would benefit from reading a Vatican Excorcist's supposed work of historical fiction. The author? Fr. Malachi Martin. The book? "Windswept House." Just remember that an exorcist has no way to divulge the content of their formal work. Perhaps those better trained in theology could confirm that thought? Anyway, these are confusing times. There are wolves in sheeps' clothing just as Jesus promised there would be. He returns soon. And boy do we ever need Him!
What are we talking about?
What are we talking about? Good question! That post above is ridiculous and chopped and makes no sense. It doesn't even follow the topic. That person should clam up, or clear up the thoughts. But, it does sound like a reference to one of the last lines of Scripture, let the holy continue in their holiness and let the filthy do likewise. Perhaps that is what the person's post above took a long time to say??? Or, perhaps, the person believes in the goodness of LC--who, if their formation is good--could lead to specific and deliberate rough treatment of individuals to help them grow? That sounds twisted. But, the suggestion to go as a mole is pretty interesting. I suppose if LC members were discerning, beyond human reason, they would sense the person's motive. If not, perhaps they are a sham. I like that post above but it was annoying to read.
Be careful not to judge too harshly some of the profanity. These individuals have suffered severe psychological manipulation over many years. Fr Maciel is the on trial and has been able to perpetrate these abuses for many years with impunity. Many of these individuals have had to stand by and watch him be worshiped while they where ostracized from the order. I think this is symptomatic of something that was radically wrong with in the Legionaries. They need your prayers not your condemnation
As former Legionaries we are all pained by this. There is no excuse for this, we were duped, and yet God still was with us when we were there.
For my part I am angry that I was influenced by such a charlatain. I have good memories from being in the Legion & I thank God for those and for sheilding me from any abuse. I have to say the only regret I have is now having been involved with such a farce - I in my conscience did my best to do God's will and with his help still try to do that now.
Now is the time to BE THERE for the droves of Legionaries who may leave. Wether we like it or not, we were united in a common purpose, and we are brothers in Christ. Immagine if you are a Legionary now - what a very confounding, frustrating, and confusing time it must be!
I am upset, but I have a life now. I hope that all exlc's will be able to recognize that God is our only true Father & that he is STILL guiding our lives. I am blessed with many blessings of my family, my health, my Faith.... Let us not forget that.
I wish all of you the best, this will take time to play itself out. Let the process run it's course, in 50 years the Church will still be here and the Legion mayor may not be.
may we all reach peace in our souls...
Joe Biltz
As a former Regnum Christi member I have to concur with the two posts above. We can't judge those who are in such pain right now and understandably angry. For those who are still defending the Movement, we understand- the truth does hurt. We will be here as sisters and brothers to support you however we can. You are screaming inside- it can't be, it can't be. It is, but be patient with yourselves as you come to terms with all of this. When I left three years ago, I was ostracized by all of you, my children were whispered about because they left their apostolates, yet I was not angry at you. I was frustrated because no one would validate what was so plain to see. The FRAUD. It is fraud, not mere failing. That you can easily say' we're all human and fail" but fraud is when you are told to MEDITATE on a man's endless writings of how perfect he was , how he never said no to God, how he always knew God's will and followed it, and then we find that it was all a LIE to keep souls prisoners to HIS power, not God's, not the Holy Spirit's. You who are angry, who are in denial still, believing that the movement is still good, you need what we needed- An apology. Why , because you are still good, the Church is still good, and that is the only thing that makes the Movement have any good at all. That which was good was good BEFORE the movment ever came along. So maybe you had wonderful growth during your time in the movement , but it was IN SPITE of it not BECAUSE of it. God and His Church and His true Saints guided you through it all and He never abandons His children. The movement, whatever it was , was abandoned by Fr. Maciel a long time ago , it it was ever even real to him. May God bless you and prepare you for his true kingdom.
PAUL LENNON AND REGAIN WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me be clear too... I do not justify the life and sinful actions of Father Maciel... they are sinful actions and deplorable...
I just have great difficulty condemning a whole organization because of the actions of one man... or many men for that matter.
We do need to pray for all, to turn to Christ and His One Holy Catholic Church, and pray also for the Holy Father, who also suffers at this very sad news, i am sure!
-Charles Mollenhauer
And I have never ostrasized anyone who has left the RC... I remain friends with many of them. Should I have liked to remain friends with you too!
Profanity, despite the fact that I also have used it in the past... really is not acceptable. I pray for any and all who have suffered evil, especially. I only hope and pray I may not be the cause of others suffering through my words and actions... and if I am, I ask forgiveness...
I too, am a sinful human being...
Sorry if I offended anyone! Only trying to have a more clear perspective on these very sad events!
-Charles Mollenhauer
Joe,
Also, now is a time to be there, and pray for Legionaries who decide to continue their vocation with the Legionaries too...
They need our prayers and support to, as they are also suffering greatly at this very sad news...
-Charles Mollenhauer
The Legion was founded by....a, a, a sinner! Eeek! Run! A sinner!
Look, LC and RC are about loving Christ, serving others and building the Church. That will never change.
The idea that the LC can go forward from here is based on the wishful thinking of those who continue in the movement. What most of these people can't admit is that the LC - including priests,laymen, laywomen, consecrated,as well as the RC - lie about almost everything. Lying is endemic to the culture of LC and RC.
No lie is too big (evidence the topic at hand)nor too small. Anyone who has worked closely with LC/RC knows this. Those who stay are able to rationalize (see above) or just buy into it. Those who can't abide the deceit soon find themselves on the outs.
A lot of people who criticize the legion use poor language. I was told that those who claim abuse are nothing but atheists and homosexuals. Is that enough to discredit their arguments, their testimonies?
I'm no psychologist, but I would think that if these people had to go through what they claim they went through, it's probably what made them atheists and homosexuals. If what is being said about MM is true, there is plenty of reason to be full of a righteous anger.
The LC and RC were not founded by an ordinary sinner. They were founded by a particular type of sinner, a fraud. To steal from Mary McCarthy everything Maciel said was a lie, including "and" and "the".
As a person who was in the Legion, I can understand some who feel duped. The life was hard, and 'time was kingdom' so we never had time to think. Once they left the anger came up, the feeling that they were taken advantage of, and wasted years of their lives. But many of the critizisms I see here are the same I have seen of other Catholic movements, one need only go to ODAN to see something like this on Opus Dei. Steven Hussein's combating cult and mind control's catagories can be applied to 98% of Catholic religious life in America.
The issue at hand is 'Nuestro Padre,' and the dichotomy in his life, which was criminal. It needs to be condemned, the man was sick, and since he was the top dog there was very little to check him. I can even understand some concern about the hiearchy since they might have known. (This remains to be proved, but if is the case those members need to be removed.) Also their influence on the legionaries needs to be considered. (All those hours of reading Envoy, and his constant complaints how he was offering this or that suffering for the legionaries. I thought all that was bunk the first time I read them. But they do have an influence on the members. Remember the story how he gave away his clothes? Or the lottery ticket he wasted the money on. lol Always wondered how anyone could follow a guy who used money he collected for a lottery ticket. But either way his writings influenced the members, this needs to be considered.) But I think this can be weeded out.
Because the founder was a serious sinner, does not mean the entire community needs to come down. They just need a re-orientation. Their constutitions need to be re-written. (I mean the sections that refer to other documents, which contain rules, that Rome originally ordered to not be in their constutitions. Such as the social formation book.)
But why throw the whole thing out, just because the founder had serious issues? Catholics do not commit the genetic falacy, we reform things. Do we not believe Grace can make the thing what it should have been in the first place?
Maybe some leaders need to go, and the sell out Fr. Jonathan, who is a sign of the illness that is systemic in the community needs to go to the missions. (Ie 'it is more important to get into the door, so you can present the message.' So he sells out the faith to FOX so he can work for them.) What I am referring to is the attitude that the ends justify the means, which is common to Legionary philosophy. This attitude allowed a lot of the dichotomies that existed in the Legion, including people not to look too closely at Marciel's secret life.
Cut this out, add some good formation, and the community will do quite well. Why trash everything, sell the buildings? This makes no sense, why not re-dedicate it all to God. Remove the undue emphasis on 'Nuestro Padre' and a great deal of the problems will go. Fill the vacuum with Catholic spirituality, but destroying them will just create a greater vacuum for someone else to move in.
They need change, not destruction!!!
Charles,
I really feel for you because i can see that this is really starting to hit you. I don't know if you were a former member. I remember how in the begining I too was shocked at what some ex RC LC people were saying on Regain and elsewhere, not excusing the bad language, but I can't fathom the pain of someone who has spent half his /her life, good people, men and women, who sacrificed so much. I was in it for only six years, and was not considered the most "generous" member, i.e. I didn't spend the majority of my time spreading the kingdom recruiting kids and adults the way we were supposed to- yet the sense of betrayal and of being used would come over me in painful waves. These poor people are terribly terribly wounded and they are understandably enraged. They have sacrificed EVERYTHING for a horrible deception. We need to tell them they are still good, we need to tell them the Church is there for them and will help in the healing, not judge them or dismiss them and tell them to "chin up" be over it already.
-mariposa
>>To steal from Mary McCarthy >>everything Maciel said was a lie, >>including "and" and "the".
What is this a reference to? Can you explain this statement?
Mariposa,
thank you for your comments. My experiences with the Legionaries have been filled with many sad human experiences. At the same time, I always saw many blessings and graces from God, as I continue to do. My hope has never been placed in any of these men, but rather, as I have always been taught by many catholic priests, place your hope and trust in God.
And so, dispite the fact of myself haven fallen many times in sin against God, I always saw sad things done at the hands of others for what they were. Human faults and failings. Perhaps even some of them were done at the hands of duplicitis men living double lives. I can not judge that...
Nevertheless, I continue to place my hope and trust in a One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church under the leadership of Benedict XVI!
I understand the great suffering many have suffered, and I also can say that their anger may indeed be justified. Who am I to judge that. I do not take issue with their anger and desire for justice. However, improper language, nor demand for destruction of the LC also is not the answer.
With prayers and concern for all,
Charles Mollenhauer
Please pray for me too! Thank you!
Sorry for the obscure reference. Writer Mary McCarthy said about fellow writer Lillian Hellman (from Wikipedia on Mary McCarthy)
"McCarthy provoked Hellman in 1979 when she famously said on The Dick Cavett Show: "every word [Hellman] writes is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'." Hellman responded by filing a $2.5 million libel suit against McCarthy.
That is the way I feel about Maciel. Every word is a lie. A fraud. "I would like some orange juice" or whatever, was still part of the fraud, because it was ALL a fraud.
All you perfect people that keep denouncing Father Maciel really need to examine your own consciences. The example of the dishonest shop owner clearly demonstrated NOT practicing what Christ preached. Remember the "Forgive 70 times 70" part of the gospel? Turn the other cheek part? Father Maciel was human and don't fool yourself into believing he didn't know his sins. I don't know many fallen men who have been unfaithful that are actually proud of their mistakes nor want to advertise. I know people who have made huge marital blunders through infidelity but through the power of forgiveness(not unforgiving pride) and God's grace they persevere. Have you all never lied? Do kids not lie to parents? Do we disown them? No, you hope they are sorry ask for God's mercy and move on. Last I checked holding grudges and not forgiving was not apart of our Catholic faith. Cardinal Bernadine was a perfect example of a priest accused of sexual abuse who openly met with and forgave his accuser after he recanted the story. He could have been filling blogs with justifiable hate messages(justified only by prior comments) but no he was being the Catholic he was supposed to be, forgiving! Catholics in the past were criticized for being too judgmental and thus hypocritical. Judge not lest you be judged and leave the rest to God. He is of the course the one that holds the keys to Heaven, not ones on earth judging, ranting and venting. "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God."
Brothers:
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
VIVA CRISTO REY !!, viva la Igklesia Catolica y todas, TODAS las cosas buenas del RC
With my blessings
I don't think the issue is really that he fell into sin because obviously we all do. The issue is he took it to his grave with him. He never apologized to his victims or his fellow LC/RC. Despair can be deadly.
Typical RC. No is saying we are without sin. There is a difference between sin and fraud. The problem is not that Maciel is a sinner. We all are. The problem is he is a fraud. CHRIST IS MY LIFE? Writing formation books for priests? Face it. The guy wasn't just a sinner. That isn't news. It's like saying the 2+2=4. Everyone knows that everyone sins. It's that he was a fraud. All his letters and other writings were just a means to keep his appetites satisfied.
All the saints sinned. But they weren't frauds.
Its true he was a FRAUD. When founding a religious order the members are suppose to follow the spirituality of the founder. Why in my right mind would I believe any of his writings now? Although he fell into sin as we all do, He never said he fell and got back up to continue his mission, he never apologized, he never repented, and people here keep calling the ones criticizing him the evil ones. I forgive him for his human weaknesses but that doesn't mean I still need to follow his spirituality.
We can forgive his human character, I am not going to cast a stone because I am in sin also, but I am not talking about him as a person I am talking about the institution of RC.. It was not built on solid ground. no offense but St. Francis or St. Dominic, both who founded great religious orders, didn't father any children nor were the sexual deviants.
I know alot of RC members are trained to defend MM so its hard to just "let it go" in time that will fade off and I believe most of you will see the light.
Sorry my use of the word shit and fuck offended so many. I promise not to use them again.
But let me feel my rage. Don't tell me to heal and love and seek peace. This is a time for moral rage and for the sanctimonious who quote the Bible nonstop I ask you- did Christ ask for forgiveness and peace and understanding when he turned the money changers out of the Temple? or did He feel RAGE.
Understand people I am not mad at the sin. I am not mad at the fact that MM is a sinner- no one believed otherwise. I am not mad that he is human.
I am LIVID that he allowed, perpetuated and encouraged a cult following of his persona WHILE this was happening. I mean come on people in 1991- the crowning jewel of Legionary moments when JPII ordained 60 priest in St. Peter's basilica- that man, that monster stood next to the Pope and received the accolades with a HIDDEN 4 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER.
He designed his own tomb. He built a museum on himself in Cotija. He made us read his writings, memorize his phrases and teachings and we were told to reference him often in conversation. He built a world of lies. Lies around him being a saint, the St. Ignatius of Loyola of our time. And he was a liar.
THAT is my rage. And my rage goes further that these same "superiors" of the Legion are now the ones telling us to pray and suffer like Christ as they do their PR damage control of the world?
HOW ABOUT "I'M SORRY". Tell me you are sorry Fr. Alvaro. Tell me you are sorry for the lies and the tacit acceptance of the lies. Don't tell me to suffer and forgive. Fess up.
But "I'm Sorry" implies culpability. And no one is guilty here- they are all innocent little lambs who gave this bastard an enormous expense account, hired jets and choppers and law firms, PR firms all for him, all to protect and defend him.
I have a RIGHT to my rage. And my anger. And to tell me I shouldn't curse- to tell me I am being "uncharitable" is to buy into more of this PR bullshit.
And that is what it is. Spiritual bullshit. The whole institution is built on one gigantic lie. And it should crumble and die as a result. It is unholy.
I separate the members from the order. And their are GREAT members. GREAT members. But the order is now an abomination in my eyes and should be destroyed.
Finally- for those of you who say "i have a friend" or "i am in RC"- with true respect I say: you don't know. You don't. Unless you were IN the LC, unless you lived the norms, the rules, the regulations, unless you were judged by them- you have no idea what I/we feel. You have no clue of the betrayal and the disgust.
So if my words have offended- too damn bad. I have been morally, spiritually, existentially wounded and I am entitled to my rage. My temple is a den of thieves and I say drive the bastards out.
If the LC REALLY wants to make amends- every superior, every territorial director, everyone in the DG will step down and be replaced. NOT SHUFFLED. The Cardinal Law approach will not work. Send Fr. Luis to teach Greek. Send Fr. Evaristo to answer phones. CHANGE THE LEADERSHIP.
Otherwise they perpetuate the lie. And in the end, the good men of the Legion will leave. I mean honestly- could you say your evening prayers tonight knowing that MM wrote them? I could not. Could you eat knowing that MM stole your money to pay for his whore? I could not. I would be sick.
I will feel rage and if that offends you, you truly don't know the evil that was exposed today. ANd you are just another child of the lie.
-a former superior
I can't believe all these RC members who are still defending his cause. The guy conned us and all the other LC's. Yes you can forgive him on a human level but why the He%^ would you still listen to his writings and teachings?
I know one of you are going to give me the whole "we all sin, who are you to condemn" but let me tell you I am not condemning the soul of MM, I am condemning his false teachings and fraudulant methodolgy.
Thanks be to God, the foundation of many priests and good works in the Church is founded in...
THE CHURCH... the mystical body of CHRIST... not in a man of flesh and blood alone... the GOD-MAN...
And therein finds one the foundation of the LC and the RC... the foundation is NOT in Father Maciel, but rather, IN THE CHURCH!
ATTENTION ALL EX-LC's
Am exLC directory, neutral meeting ground, networking and contact group for former members may be found here:
http://www.exlc.org/
Hundreds have already joined. Contact old friends.
My friend at 1:30 wrote:
And therein finds one the foundation of the LC and the RC... the foundation is NOT in Father Maciel, but rather, IN THE CHURCH!
But you don't get it: the Legion was built by and around HIM. Mornign prayers: him. The way the LC prayed the rosary: him. The act of contrition: him. Spiritual reading: all him. It was him EVERYWHERE. You even had to comb your hair on the left side because HE said so.
So it wasn't built on the Church. It was all around him, his picture, his books were on our desks, his letters were in our required readings, he was our fact in encounter, he was our guide in team balance, he was the everything.
And if HE was a lie- then that too is all lies. The good ones, for that reason, will leave. They will- I predict a 15% percent decrease in Priests. They will leave. They will. Because he is EVERYWHERE. And at some point when mommy sent you a sweater and the assistant says to turn it in because that is what Principles and Norms says you should do- the priest is going to say "no". And leave.
It's all one big lie. And no PR firm can spin a lie into at truth- not when you live in silence for 16 hours a day. People will leave, and leave in droves.
-a former superior
I think I saw pictures of Christ and Mary on your desks??? and a crucifix?
Or was it Christ and the pope?
Its clear the LC's gave RC members canned responses to these situations. They keep saying the same thing. WE KNOW the church is the backbone. The church is the backbone of all religious orders, that is not a good defense for the legion. What characterizes a religious order is the spirituality of the founder. This is what is n ow wrong with LC/RC the founder was proven corrupted therefore his spirituality is flawed. Yes we can forgive the sin, yes we forgive the sinner that isn't the issue here people. The issue is the roots of MM spirituality are corrupt.
Do you think the jesuits way of life isn't influenced by St. Ignatius' spirituality? of course it is!! And the jesuits are proud of that.
How on earth could I be proud of spirituality written by MM???
I understand alot of you were probally in RC for a long time and the reality shock hasn't set in yet but unfortunately THIS IS REALITY!
The biggest question is... Did MM prefer blondes or Brunettes?
Blondes would be my guess.
Sí en verdad son ExLC no necesito escribir en Inglés y sé que todos entenderán esto...
"Por sus obras los conocereis"
No sean ardidos!!! El que no hayan tenido la vocación para ser Legionarios no les da derecho a decir todas estas tonterias...
¡Que Dios los perdone!
Yo opino lo mismo!!
I've been a RC member for 5 years now, 4 of those years I lived with consecrated women trying to figure out God's Will... and though I'm only 20 years old, all I can say is that I was lost, my soul was dying, my life was not worth living... but then, somehow, Jesus used RC as an instrument to get to me and help me out. Today, I see my life, my past, present and future, with new eyes, with hope, with love and gratitude toward God for His mercy and providence for my soul. I'm happy!! As happy as I ever thought I could be. And though Nuestro Padre was human and a sinner, just like me -like all of us!-, I have no doubt that he was the instrument God wanted to use to show me how much He loves me. Even in my own apostolate I've found myself admiring God's ways as my work turns out succesful even though I know I'm a sinner and I'm full of imperfections. That's why, even though I'm hurt about the recent news about Nuestro Padre, I don't judge him, he's now with God, he's enjoying His presence, and about the cover up thing... well, if one of your parents suffered some illness or human failure, would you go telling everybody? Or would you remained quiet while doing some further investigation just to make sure you're not jumping into conclusions too fast? I think we all would follow the second option. I don't judge Mon Pére, not everything is due to illness as well as not everything is due to human fragility... God's the One who has the right to judge... "(Lord) forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".
I love LC/RC because I've seen all the good things God has been able to do in my life and in my family's life, because RC has taught me how to love the Church and the Pope, to know Jesus and to give Him everything I own even my life, to love my brothers and sisters, to use my time, money, virtues and imperfections to help others and make them happy... and whatever the Pope decides about the current situation with Nuestro Padre, I'll follow his orders because that's what my Founder taught me to do.
Hey everybody, maybe we think differently about Fr. MM, but we all believe in Christ, do we not? Well, then why are we judging a man about his past when Jesus commanded us to forgive up to 70x7??? This storm was not meant for RC members only but for all christians, here and now is the time when christianity will demonstrate that who unites us all is Christ and that in Him we love each other... truly love each other because HE LOVED US ALL FIRST, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T JUDGE US BUT SHOWS US MERCY, BECAUSE HE FORGAVE US SINCE THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING US! Whatever our points of view may be, criticizing a man like this, criticizing the whole Church like this (because we are all one body and Christ is our only Head) is not christian-like. "Whatever you do to one of these little ones, you're doing it to Me" and "he who'se free from sin may throw the first rock".
I love you all and thank you very very much for allowing me to share with you this experience. I swear I haven't been brain-washed (and if I have then I'm grateful because my head was full of rubbish) and I assure that many times I've been given the opportunity to leave the Movement but I've chosen to stay in it because I've found, in its spirituality, my Way, my Truth, and my Life (my dear Jesus Christ) and without Him I can't live. Thank you very much again and please forgive 70x7 ;) for my poor Enlish grammar and spelling, I've done my best but, then again, like you I'm not perfect. Let's remain together as one around Christ our Lord through prayer, charity and sacrifice... ONE HEART ONE SOUL!! XD
In Christ, Priscila
something else I was forgetting... yes I did live IN LC well, for women hehe I lived the rules, the norms, everything and those 4 years where the happiest of my life, I am who I am because of RC... God is God and He can write correctly even in wrong curved lines... (Gosh I can't translate everything I want from Spanich to English :/ I hope you understand what I'm trying to say)if there's not a single thing that's not possible for Him then why can't it be that even though RC/LC may be a fraud He can get good things for those who truly loved Him?
And if what is needed is this then: I'M SORRY!! I APOLOGYZE. I, IN THE NAME OF THE LEGION ASK YOU TO FORGIVE FR. MACIEL. PLEASE, JUST FORGIVE HIM! I offer you my apologyze just as Pope Jhon Paul II asked forgiveness, just as Christ Himself asked for forgiveness, I ask you all now to forgive Fr. MM. I'm deeply sorry for all the deceptions and bad moments you lived while living in the LC/RC. I've had myself some bad moments but I always saw them as part of God's Will, He always allows certain things to happen for a reason, and mainly that reason is Love. So, please, I ask you to show some love and forgive us all who still believe in RC's mission, all we want is to spread Jesus's love in society. We're human, we make mistakes, but of course we'll try to get better and be exactly what God wanted us to be when He founded the Legion of Christ and the Regnum Christi Movement.
Most of you, for what I've read, believe in the Church. Well, if the Pope agrees with RC/LC spirituality, then it must be something good for all of us, right? So, please once again, forgive us, give us another chance... I appreciate your understanding ;) thanks a lot... take care!!
In Christ, Priscila
P.S. Please, I know most of you are really angry and want to free your heart from the rage and hatred you may feel, but at least, in a christian-like manner, let's try not to hurt charity and if we are going to share our point of view, let's try to do it with charity and in a mature way. What do you think? ;) I think it would make Jesus and the Pope very sad to see that we're taking advantage of such a delicate situation to torn apart the Church with our criticism. Bye XD thanks for listening again
Keep drinking the Kool-aid people. It is what feeds Priscila's soul and so many others in denial. What flavor are you drinking these days? You’re gonna have an awful headache in a few years when you mature and come to your senses.
Funny thing is, there is much more "news" coming out soon. What you know so far is just the beginning.
Strap yourselves down boys and girls, it's gonna get bumpy out there.
There is some good discussion here:
http://www.xlcrc.com/forum/
"el legionsrio, o lo es, o se despide" - so why didn't he despide? Well I guess he did in the end. So will his Legion.
Well, I am in love
So does this mean we can have our discussion board back now?
“We have learned some things about our founder’s life that are surprising and difficult for us to understand. We can confirm that there are some aspects of his life that were not appropriate for a Catholic priest.”
Wearing a clown suit would be "not appropriate for a Catholic priest." Getting bajiggidy with the ladies is scandalous. Go ahead Jim, you can say it with me, scan-duh-lous.
Jim Fair - "That’s one of the mysteries that we all see in life is that sometimes good things come out of less than perfect human beings."
So good trees give good fruit, but bad trees ... give good fruit too. But they can also give bad fruit. Sometimes.
Could I get a flowchart, just to clear things up?
Two questions: (1) why an admission now (almost exactly one year after MM's death)? and (2) why mention a lover and a daughter (note, not a generic ‘child’) both previously unknown rather than admit guilt in any of the other extremely well-publicized scandals?
A guess: probate deadlines having just expired we are about to witness some high profile claim on his ‘estate’ by the same lover and/or daughter - a $650 million a year income stream is a tempting pie – the present admissions would therefore not be the result of any internal investigation or heart-searching by confused LC leaders but a form of desperate damage limitation.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. All are sinners. Father may have sinned, but the fact remains, HE IS THE FOUNDER of the organization and his name shall go down in history as such.
Catholic are hypocrites. They do not practice what they preach. They point the finger to others when they commit the same sin of impurity in different ways.
Jesus said to forgive. If you cannot forgive your brother, then you have no place in the Church until such time as you have done so.
Dont talk so loud, MM is in judgment right now up stairs.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. All are sinners. Father may have sinned, but the fact remains, HE IS THE FOUNDER of the organization and his name shall go down in history as such."
And his org will go right down with him. Down in flames.
It is people like you who enable scandals like this. Did Jesus not judge the moneychangers?
Some of these lines are hysterically funny. These are some of the best laughs I've had in years after many years of pain. I hope someone is collecting them.
Former Superior, Thanks for you insight, I find the dose of sanity quite refreshing. You can dress it up and pretend that it is something that it is not but it is what it is. One big lie
I am a member of RC.
It realy have change my life for good.
I think the LC will have to go down, and the pope will have to do somethig with all those good working priests that are in the legion-. I pray for them. Let god judge MM. Those good priest are vitims too. about 800. plus all brothers and sisters too.
Did not David commit a grave sin?. David cried and "God loved him", when he repented, though the punishment was hard.
God himself nicely took the name of a man who had committed an outrageous sin: The Son of David.
Because David had indeed worked for the Lord, despite his grave sins.
Glory to the Lord and compassion to the sinners.
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