tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post8080659138297942710..comments2023-10-08T16:32:25.031-04:00Comments on Exlcblog: Papal Scenarios vis-à-vis MacielExlcbloggerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15255210441204241907noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-33434288099999152322009-08-21T08:49:49.324-04:002009-08-21T08:49:49.324-04:00As one who admittedly had only peripheral connecti...As one who admittedly had only peripheral connection to LC/RC myself but saw a lot for a variety of reasons -- I am beginning to question whether the LCs actually had true vocations to the priesthood. I am wondering whether "the call" came from a diabolical source and not from God at all.Clairenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-16542426064047464672009-08-19T19:13:38.223-04:002009-08-19T19:13:38.223-04:00"But with all the negativity on this blog abo..."But with all the negativity on this blog about the LC's prospects, I fear that God may just refound and resurrect the Legion just to spite you, so hold it down!"<br /><br />Why in the world would God do something to spite victims of Maciel's molestation? God knows what these victims have gone through and what they feel, whether they shout it from the rooftops or whisper it in their most secret moments. <br /><br />Maybe you were being facetious, and I just didn't get it. LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-87354111864552729462009-08-19T18:47:43.389-04:002009-08-19T18:47:43.389-04:00I too am glad to see that Mr. Ritter (Brother Ritt...I too am glad to see that Mr. Ritter (Brother Ritter?) is contributing to these discussions, and I hope he is as open to the AV when they come calling. I pray that his will be a courageous voice among so many LCs afraid to speak openly and honestly.<br /><br />As for 9 Years and any other wounded souls, I hope you have documented your experiences and sent them in to an AV. It may be therapeutic for us all to vent about our bad experiences, but that will do nothing productive. Write your letters, and send them in! Along with prayer, this is the best we can do. <br /><br />ExRC<br /><br />PS Yes, my letter has been sent. Has yours?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-37755384326119372382009-08-19T18:42:12.352-04:002009-08-19T18:42:12.352-04:00people with double personality dont chose when to ...people with double personality dont chose when to be one person or the other. In Maciels case he wasnt sick. Or did anyone see him in mass with his mustache???<br />He was aware of what he was doing, and that makes him guilty and a diabolic person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-42221749589565330672009-08-19T18:15:03.433-04:002009-08-19T18:15:03.433-04:00By the way, I'm also glad to see "9 Years...By the way, I'm also glad to see "9 Years of Lies" on this discussion. I agree he has a lot of anger and he swears like a sailor, but that anger gives us an insight into the lasting damage that the LC leaves in its wake. For 9 years he was not able to vent his anger, and buried it deep inside. I hope that these discussions have been therapeutic for him.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05912627735649593985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-18659839049399871242009-08-19T17:44:41.071-04:002009-08-19T17:44:41.071-04:00Please don't tell "Edmond Ritter" to...Please don't tell "Edmond Ritter" to leave. He provides a perspective as an insider that is vital to these discussions. As to suggesting that he is a Legion defender, he is openly critical of LC leadership and he openly admits that he is still in the process of recovering from years of brain-washing. He fears for his vocation if he leaves (perhaps a symptom of the residuals of brain-washing) and so he stays. In the meantime, he gives us a window into the LC world, and will be available to the AV when the time comes. I don't know how he has such free time and open access to the internet, but thank God that he does.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05912627735649593985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-68619429040178797322009-08-19T17:04:14.458-04:002009-08-19T17:04:14.458-04:00Monsieur Ritter, you still sound rather tormented ...Monsieur Ritter, you still sound rather tormented internally. To help you put some perspective on things, I invite you to click here:<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/8pta5r<br /><br />Scroll down, and see if any of these points appears to match your experience. If so, inform your apostolic visitator.Pete Verehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114005098316164699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-34694316567995576142009-08-19T17:02:16.370-04:002009-08-19T17:02:16.370-04:00Uhum... Giselle is obviously a kind lady and helpe...Uhum... Giselle is obviously a kind lady and helped me understand that you are deeply traumatized. I step back. Relax. Breath deep. NO ONE has attacked you.<br />Yes, I am probably still brain-washed. That's why I am visiting and talking so much on this blog. The contact and criticism helps my clarity. That's okay, right?<br />If you think I am not LC, ask Giselle to write to Mr EXLCBlogger and ask who I am? Mr exlc will tell her about me, about how we one day cooked banana cream pie for 400 brothers and fathers in the Roman College. Maybe he will remember our friendly dialogue about maple syrup and corn syrup. I provoked him telling him they were all the same! Wow! That was almost as provocative as whatever I said above to provoke you!<br />You take it easy Bro., and maybe in a few days you can reread what's above and not see a personal attack or anything that calls for a defense.<br />Yours, Edmond RitterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-34718341551783439602009-08-19T17:00:17.822-04:002009-08-19T17:00:17.822-04:009 years of lies... I wish I could meet you in pers...9 years of lies... I wish I could meet you in person & give you a giant hug. You're in my prayers. I agree with everything you say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-59852785354834047412009-08-19T16:38:22.532-04:002009-08-19T16:38:22.532-04:00Giselle- thanks for the defense.
Ritter- check o...Giselle- thanks for the defense. <br /><br />Ritter- check out the name of this blog. EXLC. If you are still "LC" then your commetns really don't belong. I don't believe what you write because I don't know an LC who curses, gets online, posts on blogs and isn't Jonny Morris or Tommy Williams the circle jerk material of the LC's trinity Corcuera, Garza and Sada. <br /><br />It hasn't been 10 years I've been out. It's been a lot less. <br /><br />So do us a favor- take your MM defense, your loce of a corrupt, depraved institution and your pseudo attempts to placate us to another place. Because if you know what we know, you as an LC, and you DONT feel this rage- then you are still brainwashed. Sorry. You are dude. <br /><br />Bernie Madoff stole $50 billion and went to jail. MM stole souls, lives, vocations, faith, virginity, youth from countless people. What is his sentence? And if you don't feel that rage buddy boy you are a machine, not a man. <br /><br />The LC doesn't allow men. Human formation is not human at all. You're proof. <br /><br />start LCLovers.blog.com and post away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-33163307424958990772009-08-19T16:13:14.662-04:002009-08-19T16:13:14.662-04:00"Raging against a nebulous machine". Tha..."Raging against a nebulous machine". That is quite exact. I did that for a year. I was being shot at from all directions (I was in the Matrix). I was exasperated and repeatedly hurt. But I held back out of misplaced charity against fiends without pity. But then I read Gonzalez's book, and discovered the LC's abuse of psychology, and the tables are now turned. The visitator will be here in a month, and I and others will have thick dossiers to busy him with.<br />ERAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-25275076252715331182009-08-19T16:05:12.047-04:002009-08-19T16:05:12.047-04:00I, ER, got my psychology from reading independent ...I, ER, got my psychology from reading independent sources and consulting professionals outside even the Catholic Church. No Legionary idiocies in my sources folks. A professional protestant psychoanalyst looked at correspondence I have had with Legionary superiors and almost shouted at me with shock as she read them: "They are dissociating! They do not address your pointed and important questions!" These superiors, that is, are incapable of moral judgments, they are damaged. As for MM's DID (dissociative identity disorder, or multiple personalities), she said quite firmly, "MM is obviously DID". No room for discussion for her. She is an expert on sects and deprogramming that Paul Lennon at the ReGain website put me onto. She is a pro, through and through. She has helped people in Miles Jesu and other sect-like groups. Is it possible to "deprogram" the Legionaries? She answered "impossible". A programmed person is very difficult to deprogram. And a whole group of them? She does not think the Legion can be saved. She would find plenty of company here on this blog.<br />I know that humanly speaking, it is absolutely impossible to take the Legionaries and make of them a normal group. But God can do it, for Him, creating the Universe out of nothing, raising the dead and parting the Red Sea: it's all like taking a holiday. This does not mean that I want Him to do it. But with all the negativity on this blog about the LC's prospects, I fear that God may just refound and resurrect the Legion just to spite you, so hold it down!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-32822722565198276832009-08-19T16:03:13.423-04:002009-08-19T16:03:13.423-04:00He is not a slave to hatred, but also has only ver...He is not a slave to hatred, but also has only very recently been given the details of his captors. Before that, he couldn't even get the dimensions of his captivity so he was simply "raging against a nebulous machine." <br /><br />Now with facts, he can name the injuries, assess the damage and own his healing process. When he is ready, he will forgive and move on. <br /><br />(Being close to several POW's from Vietnam -- some in the Hanoi Hilton -- I've seen rage and its destruction. One man had lived with hatred for many many years, but recently went on his first trip back to Vietnam, engaging in travel and a service project. On this trip, he forgave and got his life back. It was God's time -- and now he's free. You simply cannot control other people's responses or paths.)gisellehttp://life-after-rc.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-80850010135579281342009-08-19T15:40:52.191-04:002009-08-19T15:40:52.191-04:00Now Giselle, are you going to give Mr 9 years the ...Now Giselle, are you going to give Mr 9 years the excuse to be the slave of hatred for the rest of his life? I may remember wrongly, but he has been TEN YEARS outside the evil grasp of the Legion, and STILL he is enthralled? Okay. But he should not give the Clod Clancy the satisfaction of still holding him a slave, a sort of "Legionary" by extension. Tell him to imagine Donny Clod sneering and laughing at him as he reads his mournful entries on this blog. That may stimulate Mr 9 yrs to do something positive about the injustice he suffered.<br />Frankly speaking, Mr Edmund Ritter.<br />PS. Yes, the very one who gives free advise, is semi-brain washed, thinks that the UPRA is great, and would love to kick Clod's Culo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-7132283678862472102009-08-19T14:51:57.262-04:002009-08-19T14:51:57.262-04:00I find "9 years of lies" entirely refres...I find "9 years of lies" entirely refreshing. It's the authentic human emotions that have been brainwashed out of the members, and one who has endured that for a long time finds emotions terrifying: in himself and in others. The rage that 9 feels is entirely in keeping with discvering 1/pederasty, 2/lies, 3/sacrilege, and 4/that years of his life were stolen.<br />It's just a phase, which can be a variety of lengths, but it's essential to healing. It's not hate, but simply acknowledging the truth. <br />The problem with the members (that those on the outside have identified correctly) is their inability to respond appropriately to grave injustice. 9 is doing just what he should. God bless his journey!gisellehttp://life-after-rc.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-19924019525485846652009-08-19T13:06:30.294-04:002009-08-19T13:06:30.294-04:00ER: The same phsicology story was told to me by a ...ER: The same phsicology story was told to me by a Legionary. You have to realize they are still brain washing you. I know various phsicologists they all say the legion story about maciel being a victim and a sick person is full of BS. <br />And im sure superiors are also telling you that his desease didnt affect his mind in order to do good things right?<br />So we have this rare disease where you dont realize that youe are doing something bad but you clearly know when you are doing something good? Its stupid as it sounds.<br />They only say that to put MM as a victim, justify his actions and dont let people think of him as the devil he TRULY was. And in the other hand they protect their god inspired "carisma" because for the good things maciel was fully conciuous... get out of there ASAP...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-20353529325028744992009-08-19T11:08:29.627-04:002009-08-19T11:08:29.627-04:00At this point, and with so many revelations and/or...At this point, and with so many revelations and/or accusations going about, I would not be surprised by anything that comes up. Do not discount or forget the stories (I presume valid) about the lavish gifts bestowed by LC upon Curial members at festivities especially. With that kind of pattern of behavior sometimes goes the opposite, i.e. digging up the dirt on someone who needs to be influenced by that means. I have no knowledge of anything and am making no accusations, but merely sounding a cautionary note.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-57751341176684427712009-08-19T09:44:54.203-04:002009-08-19T09:44:54.203-04:00"But Cardinal Ratzinger, like a good Catholic..."But Cardinal Ratzinger, like a good Catholic, adhered to this principle, and left the matter in God's Hands and did not disobey. He did the right thing."<br /><br />I find this sentiment frightening. Our respect for papal authority is not some magic wand that protects us from any kind of responsibility for using our God-given brains. There have been scoundrels who have held the office of Pope in centuries past, and most likely they told people under them to do things that were wrong. That does not absolve these bad Popes' followers from any kind of responsibility in their wrongdoing. I would not think it would go over well to face Peter at the pearly gates and try to explain why you allowed evil to go on unabated by saying, "But the Pope told me to!" <br /><br />I know a lot of people say that Legion priests should be absorbed into our dioceses. But I truly don't want that to happen until they have been through some serious deprogramming and reteaching of proper Catholic theology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-35054502122380290022009-08-19T07:35:57.488-04:002009-08-19T07:35:57.488-04:00ER, you are full of advice for others about salvat...ER, you are full of advice for others about salvation, and yet you persist in a congregation founded by someone "demon possessed". As long as you stay in, you are in league with the devil. And now, you do so knowingly. Talis qualis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-48498663328496610902009-08-19T04:13:00.854-04:002009-08-19T04:13:00.854-04:00Ratzinger's dilemma as I understand it: I can ...Ratzinger's dilemma as I understand it: I can follow my almost certainly correct judgment (that MM is what he is, an abuser and fraud) and disobey the Pope, and scandalize the Church, and even possibly provoke a schism and certainly grave confusion among the faithful; or I can simply obey the Pope, avoid all these great evils, and suffer and pray for the remedy of MM's great evils.<br />Now there is this spiritual principle: no one is ever condemned for obeying God or his mediators. This is true because God Himself has taken upon Himself responsibility for our actions done in obedience to Him: "He who hear you hears me, and he who hears me hears He Who sent Me". For Protestants, who do not hold to a strong Petrine identification of the Pope as Mediator of Jesus Christ, this would of course be difficult. But Cardinal Ratzinger, like a good Catholic, adhered to this principle, and left the matter in God's Hands and did not disobey. He did the right thing. "Edmond Ritter"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-4084788494738855532009-08-19T03:56:50.810-04:002009-08-19T03:56:50.810-04:00Mr 9 years of lies: you hate too much! It's po...Mr 9 years of lies: you hate too much! It's poison that will kill you and won't do a darn thing to MM. I believe that MM was so sick and demon possessed, that he was inculpable for his many grave sins, materially considered. He may not have even sinned formally! (Remember that sinning materially means that you do an objectively evil act, but without being aware of what your are doing, so that it is not morally culpable.) This is my poor opinion of course, after reading Espinosa's book, "Los legionarios". According to Espinosa, MM was physically abused by his father and brothers, all mexican machistas. And you know that machismo is the back side of the pederasty coin. Furthermore, his father, in a machista move to make MM "strong", sent him to sleep in cabins or out in the open air with his employees on the ranch. Some of these sexually abused him. And with that, you have all the elements necessary turn a child into a future pederast: violence, the identification of violence with sex, and the infinite, irrational hatred of innocent children because of a pre-rational identification of the innocent child as evil, worthy of being violated and abused. Under this sort of abuse, the human conscience "dissociates": it rips apart internally separating the objective and subjective orders. The abused person thus protects himself from having to cast an evil judgment on himself. MM was victimized long before he victimized others. And as a victim, it is not impossible that he was too damaged to be held accountable by God for all the moral content of his material actions. That tremendous MM, whom you love to hate, may actually be in Heaven! Stop hating so that you may have a chance to heal and arrive there too! For your good! ERAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-91841684371644813962009-08-19T03:20:33.325-04:002009-08-19T03:20:33.325-04:00I, Edmond Ritter, give the exact and perfect expla...I, Edmond Ritter, give the exact and perfect explanation, absolutely insuperable, of why I did not accept MM to be a pederast until Feb 4, 2009,-- okay nitpickers, it was probably not until the 5th when I had done my own honest research on websites such as this that I accepted the pederasty of our "Saint". Here is the reason. I WAS BRAINWASHED. The holiness and uprightness of the Legion was unquestioned. What happened on Feb 3 is that the Legionary government radically contradicted itself, exploding my delusion.<br />Any other questions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-81700271188671224502009-08-19T00:53:59.742-04:002009-08-19T00:53:59.742-04:00How many years a single sexual abuse case takes to...How many years a single sexual abuse case takes to settle to sentence?<br />Lets say Ratzinger began to hear the acusations in 1997-1998. Then again maybe he heard something else 2 or 3 years later. By that time he put somebody to dig a little bit more. So maybe the case really began around 2002-2003, interviews, collecting proof, etc etc. Its about 6 or 7 years since then. Add a burocratic system like the Vatican. Add corruption, money and the whole LC fighting back... Not a simple case as we see it know(since last february) I beleive it was more complicated than we think. And lets face it, Maciel was a saint until february....for most of usAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-12946236061750353262009-08-19T00:33:23.906-04:002009-08-19T00:33:23.906-04:00Lets face that in the late 90´s is when all the he...Lets face that in the late 90´s is when all the heat on Maciel hit the media. By that time JPII was old and the allegations against Maciel were not substancial enough. I mean, all of us around the Legion didnt beleive anything. Even the acusers said there was no response from the vatican through all those years. Is until that time (late 90´s) when I think Ratzinger began to dig into the case. A complicated case. Just imagine him facing a saint(Maciel) against some people saying all those things against him. Everything was so cloudy at that time. I dont imagine Ratzinger bothering the sick and old JPII about "rumors" on Maciel.<br />By the time he realized Maciel was not who we all beleived he was, the pope was in his final days.<br />Also, a lot of cardinals and bishops were on Maciels payroll.<br />I think JPII never knew about Maciel. He had to trust what he saw. Dont think he is guilty.<br />And I think Ratzinger was a brave cardinal and even breaver pope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7498854344598192644.post-29389766381267275922009-08-18T22:35:54.906-04:002009-08-18T22:35:54.906-04:00I do appreciate the rage so many ex-LCs feel towar...I do appreciate the rage so many ex-LCs feel toward those who might have been in a position to stomp Macielism out earlier but failed to do so. <br /><br />At the same time, it makes no sense to assume that Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict somehow knew about all of this and covered it up. Ex-LCs of all people should understand that. So many people devoted 5, 10, 20 years of their lives to Maciel and his institution, convinced all the while that he was a saint and that allegations against him were just lies by enemies of the Church. <br /><br />If hundreds of people who were immersed in Maciel's world were snookered by him, what makes you think officials in the Vatican must have known more?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com